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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and i'm on the road as

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you can see behind me

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and down in florida and

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uh with my son having a nice little

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vacation

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and the uh guest micah hanks he's

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probably 10 times more tech savvy than

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me

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but he hasn't been able to get on stream

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yard where i have message every which

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way messages every which way to him to

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uh call in our phone line and uh

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hopefully he'll catch that message

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uh through email and we've been trying

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every which way but but for now i just

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thought i'd show you because uh this has

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nothing to do with ufos but

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who doesn't like

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manatees

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and uh this is a a cow a minute cow down

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in florida in the warm springs they're

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such gentle beautiful beings

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and

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uh their skin feels like an elephant

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looks like elephant too but check this

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out right here if you're watching live

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here look at the little baby calf or the

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calf i should just say

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coming up to mummy and then getting a

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little breath of fresh air

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now isn't that sweet doesn't that make

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all your

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your anxiety go away and everything

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uh anyway uh got to swim with them and

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uh so that was a lot of fun

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and i'm gonna we're gonna hope that

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micah comes in but uh for now i just

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just a couple of announcements uh we

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have a new blog as always

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and uh let me just pull that up it's

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called a ufo abduction

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and sergio pontois

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uh

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that was my attempt

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at french uh thanks to a friend sent me

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some phonic

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uh translation of that uh so just a

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couple of things i do want to thank

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everyone that listens to the show

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everyone that helps out anyone can do

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that all you have to do is go over to

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podcastufo.com

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you'll see our patreon page there to

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support the show

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and again our all our blogs are over

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there on that page we do have an archive

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of many many of our 500

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audio podcasts so that you can access a

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lot of them through that

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website also

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just another announcement uh may 3rd

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check your calendar because we're going

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to be at james fox at his new home over

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in vermont and we're going to be filming

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a show live on site that should be a lot

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of fun may 3rd

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should be a great show

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and uh bill i think i'm going to call

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you in and we're just going to hope that

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uh

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i'm don't you agree he's like a super

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tech savvy guy he is he's like super

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geeky he's a brilliant individual he is

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a very person i know and uh

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did you say something on a bunker he's

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in a bunker

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that was a joke right no no that's what

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his show uh live from the bunker oh i

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see i see so maybe that's the problem i

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don't know if he's literally in the bug

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but he does his own show so we this is a

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total mystery uh why he's not able he

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does a lot of stream yard shows which i

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am using

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so uh i'm not really sure uh what what

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is going on with that but uh hopefully

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we'll you you've got your eyes right

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there on the telephone right you should

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be able to get those

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and on skype since i sent him a message

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hopefully he'll see that on his skype

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yeah so yeah

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so uh what i what are we gonna talk

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about we got some time to film

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how how about uh ufos you know i have

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someone wrote me recently and you know

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they kind of a lot of people miss

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the first part of the show that i used

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to do with alejandro

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you know we'd always cover the latest

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breaking news and uh me being on

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vacation i haven't really been paying

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attention to be honest with you so i

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have no idea what's going on and it's

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not your job to pay attention but have

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you

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actually my focus has been on getting

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ready for prime push in a few weeks

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oh kind bush yes that's another thing

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well let's talk about that that's coming

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up june 3rd yeah you'll be there

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i'll be there yes june 3rd and who's

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going to be there for speakers we've got

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lee spiegel again yep he's the keynote

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uh bob sparing the international

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is that from new york new york state

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what's that where is he from

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where's bob

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i think bob's coming from pennsylvania i

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see huh then show la costa uh who does

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all the data research oh yeah sightings

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cases

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yeah uh well done i mean in depth

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when she does her books she's going to

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be speaking as well she's traveling from

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i think ohio she used to live in new

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york and i believe she would now move to

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ohio yeah and we got katie grobowski at

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the state director for colorado mufon

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and of course our good friend mark

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d'antonio

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oh mark's gonna be there again again

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mark yeah but he does a great job martin

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he does i know he does

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oh i love mark he's he's awesome uh he

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came up in a conversation today between

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my son and i we're we we did a astronomy

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trivia my son took astronomy in in

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college

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and uh his professor always german

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professor always started the classes

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with the moody blues song i can't

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remember exactly how he said it but um

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he remembered that and that so my sons

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listened to a little bit of moody blues

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along the way because of that but he

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aced the class so we did astronomy uh

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trivia between him and i and uh

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i didn't exactly win i'll just put it

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that way

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well i did

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i've been looking at some equipment and

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you know i do sky watches yes

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i have the sony a7s iii which is a great

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camera martin very expensive yes yeah

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well not as expensive but what i'm about

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to tell you i've been looking i know

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someone who's uh a dealer for certain

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equipment that they have for ships for

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yachts

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oh wow and they have a device it's a

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flear camera for the vessels

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isn't that i thought those were used

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just on those are used

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you can use one

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on

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actually sell them for people with

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vessels with private yachts

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but the price is range you're ready for

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this anywhere from

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say 4 000

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to 109 000.

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so what it is it's got an encasement

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obviously it's made for outdoors

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um i would have to get a converter to

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convert the power run a cable on the top

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of my house it would be a fixed mount

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they have um and i can control it with a

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joystick inside the house

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but

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the one option of the camera is it's

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fixed

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there's another option where it can move

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pretty much anywhere you wanted you're

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going to have to have one so you can

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move it right i mean i would i would

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just put

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yeah you know

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big dollars oh is this something

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is this hot merchandise or is it legal

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no it's legal it's like i said it's made

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for vessels i know i'm just teasing you

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man just but it would be a heck of a

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thing to have here in the hudson valley

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for observation of

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aerial phenomenon

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yeah you had something you

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fly over the house i remember you were

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doing a skywatch and something was

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pretty weird

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what was the uh what did it do did it

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like turn

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like

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it was going through the streamline you

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don't have to try to get it

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okay but you know

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the camera was pointed straight up but

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this was an older camera system this is

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when i first started in 2013

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i took uh samsung

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what was scb2000 it's a surveillance cam

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a cc tv camera

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and then i took the ir filter out of it

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to make it more like a night vision a

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more

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uh higher resolution for light

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at night

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so it was a cloudy night

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but there was uh breaks in the clouds

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and i captured something now it's

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curving it i'm going to just go to do it

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like this but remember the camera is

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looking straight up so it will be

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curving

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like in the sky above but it came down

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went up

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stopped for a split second

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had three points that were illuminated

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two smaller in the back one larger one

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in the front so it kind of formed the

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triangle and then it went

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gone

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wow

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now i've heard many different theories

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from people that i respect

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but i just don't know what that was

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martin and yeah like all right well you

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just said who you respect so i'm

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guessing you showed it to

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mark d'antonio and what did mark what

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did mark have because mark usually has

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an explanation for any bizarre looking

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thing that's out there

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his explanation

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it could have been

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something that was coming into our

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atmosphere and deflected back it skipped

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the atmosphere in other words and went

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back out but martin

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this thing curved

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it did not go any linear direction it

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curved

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and it stopped for a second

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and it had three points of light and

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which i say that carefully because i

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believe it's propulsion if it's

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artificial

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you know in nature not

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natural

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so

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that's my guess

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now i can pull it up people can reach

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their own conclusions but they got to

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remember

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this was taken on

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one of these old

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s

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um

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because that's the only way we're gonna

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see the features

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it can be anything it could be a

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military craft it could be a drone

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i don't know

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and

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i just can't come up with some type of

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an answer to tell me

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otherwise

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and would you believe it i don't know

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what's been going on lately i don't know

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00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,800
if this has anything to do with anything

283
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:22,240
that's going on

284
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:24,480
but um i've been having some serious

285
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:27,120
issues with connecting to websites have

286
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:30,880
you or any kind of um

287
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:32,640
browser issues going on because it's

288
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:34,480
been happening to me

289
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:36,640
no uh are you talking about like right

290
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:38,560
now are you talking about in general

291
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,760
like right now i'm trying to go to my

292
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,440
youtube page

293
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,839
and it's giving me a hard time and you

294
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:46,000
know me i have a great system here but i

295
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:47,760
think i managed to get through so let me

296
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:49,680
see if i can pull this video up

297
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:51,680
and i know in the meanwhile since we're

298
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:53,839
uh yeah yeah hopefully in the meanwhile

299
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,839
i'm going to let's see uh let me share

300
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:59,680
let me share another

301
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:01,519
another i found mine

302
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,399
yeah oops i gotta make sure that's oh we

303
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,079
someone is saying that they're going to

304
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,320
call micah so

305
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:10,480
that would be nice if you can please do

306
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,760
yep all right

307
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,160
i've got my screen ready to share so i'm

308
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:16,639
going to share you can get permission

309
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:18,240
once all right i'm waiting waiting to

310
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,600
hear that

311
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:21,519
all right

312
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:25,920
now folks this is looped zoomed in

313
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:27,920
um it's looped

314
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:28,880
all right

315
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:33,670
that

316
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,920
so it's curving blinking yeah yeah

317
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:37,519
curving down curving back up look for

318
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,760
the curve here see how that curve yeah

319
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:41,920
right there and then i'll try to freeze

320
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:44,320
it it's really hard

321
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,399
it's hard to get that

322
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:48,399
now did you see this with your

323
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:50,399
did you see this with your naked eye or

324
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,920
no just yeah so that's it

325
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:55,279
yeah i don't know what the heck that is

326
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,480
mine

327
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:58,560
well someone suggested it was swamp gas

328
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:01,200
but i i i don't think i don't think so

329
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:03,920
but yeah but yeah that's what i captured

330
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,040
in 2014 in the hudson valley

331
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,839
and the hudson valley for those of

332
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:11,040
you that

333
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,480
uh listeners that

334
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,720
don't know there's so many things or

335
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,720
have purportedly

336
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,560
been going on there for

337
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:20,639
how long back

338
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:24,320
decades i was talking to lou alizando

339
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:27,040
and i told him i showed him this clip

340
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:28,320
and he said i said it's been going off

341
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,920
the day he goes bill it's been going on

342
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:31,680
for longer than that

343
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:34,399
has he actually looked into that area i

344
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,680
don't know i didn't ask him that

345
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:36,959
question but

346
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,720
martin there's people that see stuff up

347
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,720
here all the time

348
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,639
and that's what put pine bush on the map

349
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:44,160
because of all the supposed sightings

350
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,440
that people experiences that what they

351
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,959
were having there

352
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,720
and i'm not just that i mean there's so

353
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:50,240
many other things going on there too

354
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:51,279
which is

355
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:53,120
really really strange

356
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:53,920
yes

357
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,680
you know so if you remember but when i

358
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:57,360
was out there last year

359
00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:59,600
i had uh a friend

360
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,320
that i had remembered had stayed in in

361
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:04,160
that area during when all those things

362
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,360
were happening

363
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:07,519
uh when when there was uh i guess you

364
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:09,120
would call it a flap

365
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,440
and uh so i called

366
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:14,000
and she basically said that

367
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:15,839
there was do you remember the story

368
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,800
there was like a being in the uh

369
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,639
in the woods and everybody was seeing

370
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,480
this thing when she was she wasn't

371
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,480
expecting to see anything

372
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:26,959
and it whatever it was

373
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,240
uh

374
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:30,800
she thought she's she described it as it

375
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:33,440
looked like it was uh gray

376
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,399
you know

377
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:36,880
um and all these people the cameras and

378
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:39,040
every there they were there to film like

379
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,560
a possible sighting

380
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:41,920
and she just happened to look over and

381
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:43,199
there was some type of being now it

382
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,399
could have been someone

383
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,240
in my opinion this is just my opinion it

384
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,240
could have been someone playing a game

385
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,920
on them too you know that could have

386
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:52,000
been something like that

387
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:53,120
um

388
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,160
in some type of uh i don't know

389
00:15:18,870 --> 00:14:59,040
alien costume i don't know i don't know

390
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:20,629
oh i've got a lot of film of them like

391
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,760
munching along the bottom

392
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:25,920
obviously snorkeling yes you can't dive

393
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,320
around them you have to snorkel yeah so

394
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,399
but um they when they're eating i'm

395
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:32,320
telling you it's all business but when

396
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:34,079
they're not eating like these were

397
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,440
they'll come right up to you nose to

398
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:37,600
nose and they're a lot of fun a lot of

399
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,240
fun to play with now i've spoken to a

400
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,240
lieutenant here

401
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,480
yeah for the town of police

402
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,320
and of course

403
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,199
the famous line off the record

404
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,120
because i asked this does not sound like

405
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:53,519
a manatee story to me but no you're

406
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:56,720
guessing yeah okay it's ufo but

407
00:16:21,590 --> 00:15:57,519
i

408
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:21,600
stuff well he sees he actually told me

409
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:22,560
one

410
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:29,749
wow

411
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,480
now this is a true story i was in sears

412
00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:33,920
getting my car

413
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:37,519
an oil change right here where i live

414
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:39,519
and there was a guy that was sitting

415
00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:40,480
there

416
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,399
waiting for his vehicle

417
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:44,160
and i had you know a paranormal looking

418
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:45,279
shirt on

419
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:47,040
and he goes are you interested in that

420
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,240
stuff and then i ran into the whole

421
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:51,040
thing about you know kj and all that

422
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,079
and

423
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,079
he goes i have a story for you i was

424
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:55,680
like really and i can get him on your

425
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:58,079
show martin um

426
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:00,880
if you want but he doesn't do video

427
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:03,680
he's a retired new york state

428
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:04,799
parks

429
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:07,919
department police officer

430
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,319
and this happened in the 80s

431
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:12,079
he was on duty

432
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:15,120
he was on the taconic parkway

433
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,480
and

434
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:18,640
he pulled over to the side because he

435
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:20,880
noticed a light above him

436
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,280
he said it was the size of a stadium

437
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:24,959
martin

438
00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:26,000
and

439
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:28,160
oh he was in awe he was outside the

440
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:30,000
vehicle looking up at this thing and

441
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,679
then he heard the chatter on the radio

442
00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:35,200
come this thing

443
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:36,799
they were coming from the north there

444
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:39,440
was a police officer's uh

445
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,720
patrol cars

446
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,960
racing down the taconic from the north

447
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:44,640
coming to autumn

448
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:47,120
chasing this thing

449
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,760
then it it went boom gone it was heading

450
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,520
south and they continued to chase it

451
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:53,520
just like out of the movie it's like out

452
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:54,799
of almost like close to countries where

453
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:56,880
they're chasing the thing

454
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,440
and he never reported he never reported

455
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:01,120
it because they're afraid of being

456
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,640
ridiculed

457
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:04,880
put in for psyche vows

458
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:07,440
yeah this is what happens

459
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,760
um or happened i don't think it's gonna

460
00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:11,760
i don't think we're gonna see it as much

461
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:13,919
i hope not yeah i mean i think the

462
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:16,480
stigma is kind of softening

463
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:17,360
you know

464
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:20,240
i mean it obviously is but how much will

465
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,080
it you know i mean because there's only

466
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:24,640
a certain percentage of people out there

467
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:27,200
that even pay attention to this topic

468
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,960
when it comes up on the news or anything

469
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,640
there you know other

470
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:32,880
most people are just you know think it's

471
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:35,760
nothing to think about it's impossible

472
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:37,760
so it's nothing to worry about or think

473
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:38,480
about

474
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:39,280
well

475
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,160
when

476
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,720
um travis walton was here a couple years

477
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:45,200
ago along with tom reed swift pine bush

478
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:47,679
ufo festival fair

479
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,640
um

480
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:50,720
mark was there there was a few others

481
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:53,039
fox news was here

482
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,080
tucker carlson sent the crew to cover it

483
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:58,000
if there's one person in mainstream

484
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:01,120
media that does do a lot of coverage of

485
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:02,880
this topic

486
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:04,799
i have to give credit to tucker carlson

487
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,320
because he does

488
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:08,640
yeah i'm sure there's others

489
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:12,240
but i mean he does put it up on his show

490
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:15,840
he he had lou elizondo on uh last week

491
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,720
right

492
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:18,960
yeah or the week before yes i saw that

493
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:21,039
yeah yeah the week before yeah so

494
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,000
i mean at least there's some mainstream

495
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:25,679
media that's doing it and that's

496
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,679
important to get it out there whether

497
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:29,360
you agree or disagree with the

498
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:31,039
individual oh we got a phone call coming

499
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:34,000
in i'm gonna mute it could be micah

500
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,110
and well so hang in there everyone and

501
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:42,960
thank you for being patient

502
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:45,440
we're we're just uh killing some time

503
00:19:49,270 --> 00:19:46,720
here

504
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:49,280
chatting about bill is smiling so that's

505
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:50,640
a good sign

506
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:54,640
it looks like uh it's a possibility

507
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:55,679
uh oh

508
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:58,320
did i just see him shake his head

509
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,039
no he's laughing so uh hang in there

510
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:03,280
michael will be on in just a moment uh

511
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:04,159
oh

512
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:09,990
all right so

513
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:12,159
so the individual thought that that

514
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,799
number was for myker and they called me

515
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:17,760
so but i thanked her oh i said i see

516
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:19,360
because i did put the number up on the

517
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:20,400
board

518
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:22,400
and said if anyone knows

519
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,039
um if anyone knows micah's number call

520
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,880
him and i put that number and tell him

521
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,799
to call this number so that's that's

522
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:31,039
where that is i also have uh someone

523
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,480
else just text me

524
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:34,559
and said that they will um they will

525
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,280
attempt to reach him okay

526
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:39,440
uh okay

527
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,320
so

528
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,880
anyway um getting back to

529
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,919
since we're

530
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:45,440
up hey

531
00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,440
there's an internet outage

532
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:49,840
okay i'm i'm hearing from him right now

533
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,760
can you fill a little gap bill and talk

534
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:54,240
about whatever you want yeah so

535
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:56,400
i actually um

536
00:21:02,789 --> 00:20:59,679
what got me all interested in ufology

537
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:02,799
was i had a sighting in 1995 in new york

538
00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:04,880
city of all places

539
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,679
it was june 10th

540
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:09,120
they were showing of all things

541
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,720
pocahontas

542
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:13,039
in central park and i lived in the

543
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:16,480
northern area in the bronx

544
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,760
right on the border of westchester

545
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:20,159
county and i was looking out my window

546
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:22,080
because i loved thunderstorms i loved

547
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,559
weather i wanted to become a weatherman

548
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,919
growing up

549
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:27,760
and i seen

550
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,440
something similar to what's behind me

551
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,440
right there on the left side

552
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:32,960
on my left

553
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,360
but it was boomerang or triangular made

554
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:37,679
no noise and it went right over and it

555
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:38,799
was heading

556
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,840
toward

557
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:41,679
the fireworks display that was happening

558
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,840
at about 11 o'clock at night i guess

559
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:45,120
just to let you know pay attention to

560
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,240
your phone too

561
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:48,320
because mike micah should be calling it

562
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:49,760
i've got screens also that show me all

563
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:52,320
right all right sure yeah

564
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,280
so

565
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,000
i reported it to peter davenport

566
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,720
new fork at the time

567
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,320
he got back to me a few days later an

568
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:02,720
email bill you're not alone many seen it

569
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:04,159
from here we go we got a phone call

570
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:06,880
coming in i'm going to mute yep okay

571
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,440
so that was uh micah just

572
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,360
had my skype from

573
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:13,919
now micah hanks was on the show the

574
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:15,039
first time

575
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:18,799
i'm thinking it was 2012.

576
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,600
so

577
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:21,440
we're talking about 10 years ago

578
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:23,280
somewhere around there it was on first

579
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:25,520
now bill's smiling more this time so i'm

580
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,360
pretty sure that's micah hanks on the

581
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:29,360
phone so again i want to thank you for

582
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,280
your patience everyone

583
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:33,840
and i think we're about

584
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:36,159
i'm trying to read lips trying to see

585
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:38,320
what bill's saying

586
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,480
uh-oh that wasn't hanging up okay here

587
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:42,559
he comes

588
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,230
uh we're muted or something bill we

589
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,919
don't hear anything

590
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,679
yeah because i had it on you okay all

591
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:54,159
right he's ready to go so um you have to

592
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:56,320
keep me on the screen i'm going to

593
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:58,640
yeah i know stop the camera change the

594
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,280
name and let's bring him on so i'm going

595
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:03,440
to bring him on right now

596
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:04,960
micah

597
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:08,400
greetings

598
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,470
can you hear me okay micah apparently

599
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:16,080
there is a area

600
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:17,760
yeah it seems that there's an area-wide

601
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:20,720
uh outage where i am right now and so i

602
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,720
finally managed to connect to the 4g and

603
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,799
call in uh there's a bit of a delay but

604
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:26,640
that's better than nothing right

605
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:29,039
yes uh you know it's not i don't i don't

606
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:31,039
hear it on my end

607
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:32,799
which is good but you are you're getting

608
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:34,400
a delayed i don't know if you'd like to

609
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:37,360
try to call back in and perhaps uh why

610
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:39,200
don't you do that give a give a ring

611
00:23:47,909 --> 00:23:45,830
you want to do that stand by all right

612
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:47,919
sure

613
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:50,080
all right yeah so i just received uh

614
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:51,760
just before micah

615
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:55,279
came on he did uh he did

616
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:57,679
text me on skype and again he hasn't

617
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:58,640
been

618
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:01,600
we haven't talked on skype since like

619
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,000
i don't know almost 10 years but luckily

620
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:06,400
he had my name on there still and came

621
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:09,279
in and and he will come back in just a

622
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:11,039
minute here

623
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:14,320
uh so we won't have any open lines uh

624
00:24:17,909 --> 00:24:16,000
yeah unfortunately well i can you know i

625
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,919
can't on my side because i i have a

626
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:19,760
number for that as well

627
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,880
alrighty

628
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,559
so i've got everything all set for mike

629
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,640
and hopefully you can tell there's some

630
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:26,880
kind of an issue going on yeah because

631
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,919
there was

632
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:29,120
i heard it

633
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:31,039
yeah definitely

634
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:33,679
and yeah he had some type of major

635
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:40,470
internet outage in his area so he's

636
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,679
connected with uh on his phone but it's

637
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,600
not it's not really working through the

638
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:47,520
uh traditional way but he should be

639
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:49,120
calling right back

640
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:50,799
so yeah they when i'll just continue

641
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,720
until he calls back but so it was seen

642
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:54,720
from new york up the hudson river into

643
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:57,840
canada that was in 95.

644
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,799
and then i was vacationing in mount talk

645
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:02,000
long island

646
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,360
actually i love that place that's where

647
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:04,720
i go fishing and i've been going there

648
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,960
since i was a child

649
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:08,559
and um

650
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,000
i was on the beach

651
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:12,159
and as a joke literally as a joke i took

652
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:13,600
a flashlight and said i'm gonna call the

653
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,400
aliens you know ping young and foolish

654
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:18,240
and saying things like that but oddly

655
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,559
enough ten seconds later the entire

656
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:22,480
uh sky

657
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,679
colors red blue you name it green just

658
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,600
started to flash my mother was there she

659
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:30,000
runs to the hotel room in fear

660
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,840
and we're all standing there in awe

661
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,520
because it was unbelievable what we were

662
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:35,520
seeing on a clear night no aurora this

663
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:38,720
far down south it was stunning no heat

664
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,559
lightning no way

665
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:43,039
um and then a gentleman came uh after

666
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:44,799
the event was over that lasted about

667
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:46,559
like 15 minutes

668
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,000
and he goes i don't want to sound like

669
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:50,559
i'm crazy but have you been watching the

670
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:54,240
sky i said yeah we've seen it he goes

671
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:56,000
because i thought i was going crazy and

672
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:57,440
i can't tell anybody to tell them folk

673
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:59,120
because they'd never believed me but at

674
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:01,279
least i know you all seen it and

675
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,840
martin it was incredible here he comes

676
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:05,440
let's get him right on

677
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:06,720
all right

678
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,559
okay excellent i thank you bill

679
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:14,240
how's that now micah how's the uh

680
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:16,240
feedback

681
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,440
all right i think we're a little better

682
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:19,039
now how am i coming through loud and

683
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:21,520
clear hopefully loud and clear welcome

684
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:24,480
to the show micah uh thank you for uh

685
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:25,279
for

686
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:27,279
persevering and coming through this way

687
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:29,039
uh better than you know the phone line

688
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,880
is definitely better than nothing and i

689
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:32,320
was kind of joking at the beginning of

690
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:35,120
the show i said i think that micah is

691
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,039
probably 10 times more technological

692
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,440
than i am and i don't know he's not here

693
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,200
i don't know what's going on but anyway

694
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,600
i'm glad glad we uh sorted that out and

695
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:45,520
you made it thanks so much for uh like i

696
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:48,240
said for uh i'm glad you saved my number

697
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:49,520
on skype because

698
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:52,799
hasn't it been a long long long time

699
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:55,520
since you've been on the show

700
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:57,679
well it's certainly been a while and i

701
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,120
think maybe the first time you ever had

702
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:01,600
me on the program it probably was via

703
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:03,279
phone now these days were used to stream

704
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:04,159
yard

705
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:05,919
and you know all these wonderful

706
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,080
technological advantages that we now

707
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,919
have with video streaming and everything

708
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,320
but apparently tonight and keep in mind

709
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,559
i am coming to you live from curitiba in

710
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,080
southern brazil that might be part of

711
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,240
the problem i'm a continent away

712
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,159
but normally the internet is very good

713
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:21,840
here i use it every day i'm doing

714
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,440
interviews with people myself i've got

715
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,440
another interview tomorrow i hadn't had

716
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:26,880
this problem but tonight they actually

717
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:28,240
just informed us that there is a

718
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,559
city-wide outage and so we've been

719
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:32,240
scrambling to try and get back on the

720
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,679
old way so you know what when the

721
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,440
internet fails us the phone lines have

722
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,600
been working for a century and they work

723
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,360
tonight

724
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:41,520
wow so are you down in brazil on

725
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:47,669
not exactly uh in fact i'm i'm here

726
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,000
pursuing some uap research uh you know

727
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:52,960
aj javard is probably the best

728
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,799
uh ufologist

729
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:56,720
here in brazil and he of course is the

730
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:59,360
publisher of heaviest ufo or the ufo

731
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,000
brazilian ufo magazine uh but aj just

732
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,000
recently put on a conference and uh we

733
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,240
attended that uh just a couple of weeks

734
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,399
ago tomorrow night i'm joining him and a

735
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:10,320
local politician because there have been

736
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:11,840
some significant developments down here

737
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:14,159
martin in fact uh the brazilian senate

738
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,440
is right now pushing to hold hearings on

739
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,320
the uap subject in a formal capacity and

740
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:22,080
this is definitely something that sort

741
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:23,840
of mirrors some of the developments

742
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:25,200
we've been seeing in the united states

743
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:26,880
over the last few years

744
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:29,440
excellent well you know that james fox

745
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,600
movie is coming out about that i can

746
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,200
never pronounce the name of the place

747
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:35,039
but do you know where where i'm talking

748
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,679
about i i believe it's i

749
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:40,080
believe it's brazil yes

750
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:42,799
yeah it is yes it's virginia vargas here

751
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:48,070
and of course the incident is usually

752
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,440
associated with the

753
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:51,840
uh the place of the name itself but you

754
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:54,000
know again even beyond the virginia

755
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:55,840
thing and again james has really become

756
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:56,720
kind of

757
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:59,039
uh you know focused in recent months on

758
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,480
that case and that's something that goes

759
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,480
all the way back to his days you know

760
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:04,159
doing television they actually had been

761
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:06,799
looking into that uh that case back then

762
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:07,840
as well

763
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:09,440
and he's really kind of maintained an

764
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:11,120
interest in that but i mean brazil has a

765
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,480
very long history of involvement with

766
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:15,120
uap going back to the 1950s

767
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,960
the brazilian air force came out and

768
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,559
officially said

769
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:20,320
there are objects of unknown providence

770
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,279
in our skies i believe that was in 1954.

771
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,520
in around 1977 the

772
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:27,760
brazilian air force uh was actually

773
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,200
engaged in a short-term investigation

774
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,440
called opera saw pratu which essentially

775
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:35,840
translates to mean operation plate or

776
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,520
operation saucer

777
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,120
and this was to look at cases that

778
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,799
involve not only sightings of anomalous

779
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,480
aerial vehicles or what people described

780
00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:44,399
as being those lights in the sky things

781
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,159
like this sometimes discs sometimes

782
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,240
ovoid shapes kind of like your tic tac

783
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,240
everybody hears about so much these days

784
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:52,240
but also there were injuries that were

785
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:53,919
allegedly associated with some of these

786
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:56,320
sightings of uap uh there was a reporter

787
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,919
for the national enquirer back then

788
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,760
named bob pratt who actually came to

789
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:01,600
brazil many times kind of like i'm doing

790
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,200
now and he spent a lot of time

791
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:05,440
interviewing locals who described these

792
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:07,279
you know very unsettling occurrences

793
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:08,720
where they were you know sometimes

794
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:10,559
struck by a beam of light that emanated

795
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,399
from these objects and it sometimes left

796
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:14,480
a little scar or a lesion on the skin so

797
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,919
that was part of what the brazilian air

798
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:17,760
force also looked into back in

799
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:20,240
back in the 1970s and so you know many

800
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:21,840
decades later it's interesting to see

801
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:23,360
that the brazilian senate is now saying

802
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:25,120
hey we need to hold hearings we've been

803
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:26,080
you know keeping up with what's

804
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,840
happening up there in the united states

805
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:29,600
this is very much still an issue and it

806
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:32,080
has been for some time

807
00:30:36,149 --> 00:30:34,000
that's right and you know

808
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:36,159
in south america that the chilean

809
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:39,039
government also is taking this topic has

810
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:39,919
been

811
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:41,679
for a number of years taking this topic

812
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,320
totally seriously and i love the the way

813
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:46,080
that the fact that they have

814
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,840
their military involved their police

815
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:49,600
departments their scientists everyone's

816
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:50,480
involved

817
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,320
in in taking a very serious look at the

818
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,269
indeed yes uh there was of course a uh

819
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:59,360
some disputed this this footage and in

820
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:00,720
my opinion i would say that it was most

821
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:03,200
likely an aircraft of some kind too

822
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,360
that meaning a conventional aircraft but

823
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:07,120
there was a widely circulated video a

824
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,320
few years ago that purported to show uap

825
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:12,480
and the chilean uh military had been

826
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:14,320
trying to identify with what this object

827
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:17,039
was that's right you know i think that

828
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,880
there are some good explanations for

829
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:20,559
some of these videos like that one and

830
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,840
then there are some of these pieces of

831
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,360
footage that we've seen in recent years

832
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:25,360
that are you know maybe not entirely

833
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,039
unexplainable but they're a little more

834
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:29,200
on the anomalous side to me i think the

835
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:30,720
question is you know very much still

836
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,240
open the verdict is out as to what

837
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:34,559
exactly the objects in these pieces of

838
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:36,880
footage you know may be and what their

839
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,919
provenance

840
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:39,360
ultimately will prove to be but again

841
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:40,720
that really is kind of what has

842
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,279
reinvigorated the uap debate since uh

843
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:45,519
2017 i think

844
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:47,519
yes definitely and

845
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:49,039
that particular case you're talking

846
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:51,279
about i'm very familiar with that um

847
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:53,120
because i was kind of involved in that

848
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:55,200
one in particular when that first came

849
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,880
out and um to mick west

850
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,480
credit and a lot of people don't want to

851
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:02,720
give him any credit for anything uh

852
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,120
because you know he's he's uh

853
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:07,279
calls himself a skeptic but you know a

854
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:09,200
lot of what he does is he's you know

855
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:11,919
tries to be the debunker of ufos

856
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,480
in general and that one he got right

857
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:16,320
a lot of them he doesn't get right but

858
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:17,919
that one in particular i remember

859
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,120
sending the uh information to leslie

860
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:23,440
kane and saying you better pass this

861
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:25,279
along to jose lei

862
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:28,399
jose lai and tell him uh this looks like

863
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:31,279
a very good answer for this you know

864
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,760
this unidentified object uh video

865
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,720
footage um and you know they came around

866
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,799
and said oh my goodness you know their

867
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:40,399
scientists couldn't crack it or whatever

868
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:42,559
whoever was looking at it the military

869
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:43,760
no one could

870
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:46,480
understand exactly uh what was going on

871
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:48,799
but he had it perfectly laid out to an

872
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,000
aircraft that was exactly in you know in

873
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:54,399
the that area which was about 50 miles

874
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,720
away from where it was filmed that

875
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:58,720
particular exactly at that particular

876
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:00,720
time and the heat signature of it

877
00:33:06,149 --> 00:33:04,000
turning you know away from the camera uh

878
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,159
did look very mysterious and that's the

879
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:08,399
thing with you know modern technology

880
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:10,640
these new uh cameras and the new

881
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:13,840
technology we have can oftentimes

882
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,640
um you know have a mistaken object

883
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,640
because we're just not really used to

884
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:20,880
what we're seeing with these different

885
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:22,880
you know signatures so

886
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:25,120
but that one in particular i do remember

887
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,640
when that happened that was sort of a

888
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,200
black eye because it was something that

889
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:30,960
was taken real seriously and was

890
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:32,720
actually published as

891
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:36,240
uh you know a uap uh video and uh that

892
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:40,159
that particular one did not pan out

893
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:41,360
but

894
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,360
course a lot of these ufo or you know

895
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,919
ufo videos and different kinds of you

896
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:49,919
know incidents involving purported uap

897
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,120
from over the years

898
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:52,960
many of them probably have

899
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:55,600
explanations even if those explanations

900
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:57,360
eluded us at the time the incident

901
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,679
occurred or the video was made and again

902
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:01,440
i think that the one thing that will

903
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,240
help uh ufology i still you know

904
00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:06,880
interchangeably use ufo and uap i i'm

905
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:08,800
not particularly preferential toward

906
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:10,399
either one one i recognize as a

907
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,000
historical term we've used for a long

908
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,320
time that everybody knows uap it's

909
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:15,679
actually been in use for quite a while

910
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:16,560
too

911
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,440
but

912
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:19,280
nowadays people tend to prefer that they

913
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,480
seem to think that this kind of helps

914
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:22,240
remove some of the old stigma attached

915
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:23,520
to ufo

916
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:24,879
you know whatever that may be the case

917
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:26,960
but i think that what we should do as

918
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:29,679
ufologists or ua peologists

919
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,520
is learn to accept that when we can

920
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:33,599
debunk a video and we can explain a case

921
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,960
that's actually a good thing because

922
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:36,879
that yes remove

923
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,560
some of the information that you know

924
00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:40,720
helps us once we have that that core

925
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:42,800
that fundamental anomalous data that at

926
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,800
the end of the day cannot be identified

927
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:46,399
that's where we can narrow our focus to

928
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,919
we can you know turn it toward and we

929
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,599
can try to understand and resolve those

930
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:51,599
cases maybe one day we will but for the

931
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:52,960
time being i do think that there's still

932
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:54,879
that kind of residual that small

933
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,359
percentage that remains anomalous

934
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:59,280
i do and i think that's you're right

935
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,280
that's you know that's what's important

936
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:03,839
are the ones that can't be explained

937
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:06,640
even in contemporary ways like you just

938
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:07,760
mentioned

939
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,320
a lot of things you know what is it um

940
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:12,240
project blue book maybe that

941
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:15,040
701 that they could not explain

942
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,720
uh there's a percentage of that that

943
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,760
there is

944
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:19,680
you know uh answers for and probably can

945
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,000
be figured out but not you know the the

946
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,760
ti so much time has gone by at this

947
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,280
point

948
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,040
um but yeah i was just having this

949
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,200
conversation yesterday i i like when

950
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,280
things are

951
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,440
when there is an explanation because

952
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,440
that take that one and you know check it

953
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,599
off and move on to to the ones that

954
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,839
aren't explainable

955
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:41,760
certainly you know maybe part of the

956
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:43,040
problem though is that you know and

957
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,640
again with respect to the skeptics

958
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,880
because they perform a very necessary

959
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:48,400
function in this community i think you

960
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:49,599
would agree martin based on what you

961
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,040
just said and you know i have a lot of

962
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:53,200
respect for you know mix analysis but i

963
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,800
don't always agree

964
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,640
with all of his conclusions

965
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:58,000
and you know i think that that's the

966
00:36:02,550 --> 00:35:59,920
issue is that when there is more

967
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,560
information forthcoming that refutes

968
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:04,240
some of the data that we are looking at

969
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:05,599
or dealing with you know we have to be

970
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:08,240
willing even as skeptics to say okay

971
00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:10,000
i have to revise my approach and my

972
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:11,920
hypothesis may be somewhat flawed that

973
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,119
doesn't mean that it's going to be you

974
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:14,880
know completely out to wash but i mean

975
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:16,240
i've got to try and take a different

976
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:17,440
approach

977
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:19,119
and what we saw in recent days you know

978
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:20,480
there was a document released received

979
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:22,800
by john greenwald of the black vault of

980
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:24,400
course very few in the audience out

981
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:26,000
there are not going to know who you know

982
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:27,760
john greenwald is the incredible work

983
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:29,440
he's done for decades

984
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:32,079
but he received this pilot brief

985
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:34,800
that is describing testimony provided by

986
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:37,040
the weapons systems officer

987
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,880
at the time of what appears to be quite

988
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:40,560
obviously based on the data in this

989
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:41,760
brief

990
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,160
the gimbal footage as it's known this

991
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,079
being the object that at least in the

992
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:48,079
footage appears to be rotating now there

993
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:49,760
have been a lot of different

994
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:51,200
questions about whether the object's

995
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:52,720
really rotating whether that's actually

996
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:55,280
just a lens on the atlear targeting pod

997
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:56,960
uh provided by the raytheon company that

998
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,599
the fa-18s are using with the navy and

999
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:01,359
that were in use at that time fairly new

1000
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:02,880
technology at the time that this video

1001
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:05,599
was made back and i guess in early 2015

1002
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:08,320
but with this pilot brief it provides

1003
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:09,119
some

1004
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,400
additional details that the video alone

1005
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:14,560
could not convey those include that the

1006
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:16,320
weapon systems officer and the pilot

1007
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,440
said that they were coming in they

1008
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:19,119
initially thought that this object that

1009
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:20,480
they observed

1010
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:22,720
might be part of a training exercise

1011
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:25,280
this was actually something that was

1012
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,440
being produced probably electronically

1013
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:29,359
as part of a training operation but they

1014
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,960
determined pretty quickly that it wasn't

1015
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,119
they were able to detect this object

1016
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:35,280
in the airspace they were able to lock

1017
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:36,480
on film it

1018
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:37,920
and observe it as it was moving near the

1019
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,079
uss theodore roosevelt so what's

1020
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:42,240
interesting about this additional

1021
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:45,280
information provided by the wso is that

1022
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:46,320
now

1023
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:47,599
rather than just being a video and

1024
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,640
everybody's saying well we don't know

1025
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:50,079
what that is and without any additional

1026
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:52,880
context we'll never know well we're now

1027
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,560
moving toward maybe getting some of that

1028
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:56,400
additional context and so the question

1029
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,880
now must be raised if the weapon systems

1030
00:38:01,670 --> 00:38:00,480
officer and the pilot said yeah we

1031
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:01,680
watched this object come into the

1032
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,520
airspace we tracked it we were able to

1033
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:05,119
get a clear lock on it we were able to

1034
00:38:08,790 --> 00:38:06,800
quickly determine that this was not part

1035
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,800
of the training exercise with the compux

1036
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:10,640
that was going on there at the time off

1037
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,680
the east coast they were near

1038
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:13,359
jacksonville when this occurred

1039
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:14,640
if we can rule out some of those

1040
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:17,040
questions or whether we can add i guess

1041
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,359
these details to the information we now

1042
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,839
have about this footage again mick west

1043
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,520
has put forward the hypothesis that this

1044
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:25,920
is probably the flare from two distant

1045
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,400
jets yes that's why you don't really

1046
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:30,160
he's much more than just this kind of

1047
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:31,520
amorphous shape he said that's the

1048
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:33,760
result of the flare of these jets but

1049
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,040
you know if this is the information that

1050
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:37,359
the pilot and the wso are giving us can

1051
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,599
we be so sure necessarily that that is

1052
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:41,520
the best explanation any longer for this

1053
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:43,440
footage i'm not so sure it is so again

1054
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:44,960
to me this is one of these instances

1055
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:46,560
martin where i would say the verdict is

1056
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,320
very much still out

1057
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,960
right and now there's uh chris alito i

1058
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:52,640
don't know if you're familiar with who

1059
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:55,200
chris is but he's done a lot of work on

1060
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,119
that basically

1061
00:39:02,550 --> 00:38:59,920
he calls it you know jokingly debunking

1062
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:02,560
the debunkers um but he comes up because

1063
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:05,920
he's very familiar with the systems um

1064
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:09,040
he's an f-16 uh pilot retired a young

1065
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:10,960
guy um and by the way he's going to be

1066
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:13,920
on back on the show here on april 26th

1067
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:16,800
tuesday april 26th so chris basically

1068
00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:20,000
has gone through that um almost frame by

1069
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:22,480
frame and explained that there is no

1070
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:25,599
explanation for what is seen you know

1071
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:27,760
about by all the readings and everything

1072
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:30,320
that he can have access to he really

1073
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:31,680
thinks that that there really is

1074
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,880
something to that particular uh that

1075
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:36,480
particular video

1076
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:39,119
so but i i do i have heard of

1077
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:42,480
all types of variants on that um and you

1078
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:44,560
know like i do agree the jury's still

1079
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:46,640
out on that particular one

1080
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:47,839
um

1081
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:49,119
as far as

1082
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,560
the other ones go i also heard that the

1083
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,720
what's called the go fast

1084
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:57,200
is uh is like a drone lock and that's a

1085
00:40:02,470 --> 00:39:59,599
very it would be a very high speed

1086
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,480
uh a very fast drone if that's the case

1087
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:04,720
i don't know if you've heard anything

1088
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,190
you know there are again a lot of

1089
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,200
different opinions that have been

1090
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,280
expressed one of them being that and i

1091
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:15,200
think it's mick west who has argued that

1092
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:16,160
really

1093
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,680
what we're seeing is an object that's

1094
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:19,359
barely moving it's not close to the

1095
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:20,960
surface of the water like it appears to

1096
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,839
be in the video this is all a illusion i

1097
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:25,359
think you may refer to this as parallax

1098
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,440
effect but i'm not 100 certain about

1099
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:29,599
that i know that he refers to this as an

1100
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:31,520
optical illusion that is produced

1101
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:33,359
uh by the footage

1102
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:34,880
and it gives the impression of a very

1103
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,800
fast-moving object but now

1104
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:38,160
you know a natural question that comes

1105
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:40,640
to mind in that regard is the pilots in

1106
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:42,000
the video

1107
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:45,920
the information that we need to be able

1108
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,680
to discern exactly what the object is we

1109
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:50,160
do have some clues from what the pilots

1110
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:51,920
can be overheard describing and they are

1111
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:54,319
saying things like did you did you box

1112
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:55,839
that did you get that wow look at it go

1113
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,040
you know and they're saying things that

1114
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,640
seem to be indicative

1115
00:41:02,069 --> 00:41:00,480
of from their perspective aboard their

1116
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,079
aircraft this thing appears to be moving

1117
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:04,079
quickly to them now again that doesn't

1118
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:05,119
mean that they aren't going to be

1119
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,880
susceptible to an optical illusion just

1120
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:08,880
like you or i might be when we're

1121
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,800
watching that footage but the fact that

1122
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:12,000
they were in the aircraft at that time

1123
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,520
spotted the object were attempting to

1124
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:15,359
track it and then were able to get a

1125
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:16,880
lock on so that they could film it and

1126
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:18,240
now we see the famous footage of what

1127
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:20,000
appears to be a very quickly moving

1128
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:20,880
object

1129
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:22,720
you know that seems to be evidential to

1130
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,880
me of the fact that the pilots at the

1131
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,800
time the footage was made

1132
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,079
were aware of something that they

1133
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:30,480
perceived as moving pretty quickly to

1134
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:33,119
and you know again that is a little less

1135
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,560
that would make me less inclined to

1136
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:36,079
think that this was necessarily just a

1137
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:38,000
you know slow moving or an almost still

1138
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:40,240
object that due to the fact that the

1139
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:42,640
f-18 is flying very quickly

1140
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:44,560
it gives the impression of a fast-moving

1141
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:46,480
object you know they seem to think it

1142
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,800
was fast-moving also and furthermore

1143
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:50,319
they were having to try and lock onto

1144
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:52,160
this you know with their tracking pod

1145
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,839
which is of course designed to be able

1146
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:55,680
to lock onto a moving object and follow

1147
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:56,480
it

1148
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,480
uh you know so that to me seems to

1149
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,640
indicate not only was this object moving

1150
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,160
but it was moving pretty quickly like

1151
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:04,560
the pilots described now again maybe

1152
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:06,000
there isn't enough information to be

1153
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:07,920
able to really tell exactly what this

1154
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,079
footage shows but what we could hope for

1155
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,760
is that additional information such as

1156
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:13,520
the likes of this pilot brief that just

1157
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:15,760
recently was released by a foia request

1158
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:17,359
to john greenwald you know these may

1159
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:18,720
help us piece together some of these

1160
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:19,760
elements

1161
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:21,280
on down the road now

1162
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:22,960
there's of course that third piece of

1163
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:24,880
video that wasn't filmed in 2015 with

1164
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:26,400
the folks there aboard the roosevelt

1165
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:28,800
here we have the famous nimitz incident

1166
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:30,800
pilot chad underwood who i believe now

1167
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:32,400
is actually commander chad chad

1168
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,440
underwood but

1169
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:34,880
chad underwood goes out there he films

1170
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:37,599
this thing what you see in the footage

1171
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,280
again when he gets a good firm lock on

1172
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:40,800
it and he zooms in and he's changing

1173
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:42,160
through the different camera you know

1174
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:44,079
filters and the actual uh you know the

1175
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:45,760
aperture actually zooms in and you get a

1176
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:47,599
pretty tight lock on that object and you

1177
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,839
can see it i mean it looks essentially

1178
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,920
like what uh commander fravor had

1179
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:53,839
described along with pilot uh alex

1180
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:55,599
dietrich when they went out there during

1181
00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:57,119
that intercept attempt you know they are

1182
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:58,319
they're vectored out there and they say

1183
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:59,760
that they see this thing they like into

1184
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,520
being a tic tac

1185
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,440
at least what's in the foot what we see

1186
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,040
in that video grainy though it is

1187
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:07,280
distorted though it is you know low res

1188
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:09,119
though that is it still seems at least

1189
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:12,560
superficially to match their description

1190
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:14,000
and something that is very important i

1191
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,359
think is that we have to look back

1192
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:17,599
through ufological history and recognize

1193
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:18,400
that

1194
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:23,200
tic-tac but these egg-shaped or ovoid or

1195
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:25,520
cylindrical or cigar-shaped many

1196
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,520
different names over the years but these

1197
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:30,319
descriptions have been with us at least

1198
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:32,079
since the 1940s martin you know for

1199
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,920
instance there was a very interesting

1200
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:35,520
file that actually i think turned up

1201
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,800
maybe both in the fbi and the cia files

1202
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,400
but it actually came from a civilian

1203
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:42,160
source it was published back in the

1204
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,640
1950s it involved a test of skyhook

1205
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:46,079
balloons that was occurring i believe at

1206
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:48,960
white sands back in 19 it was april of

1207
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:50,640
1948

1208
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,480
and as they were doing the test they

1209
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,720
were training little telescopes little

1210
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,800
telescopes they were using on what they

1211
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:58,079
thought was the balloon and then they

1212
00:44:01,910 --> 00:44:00,960
are suddenly aware of this object moving

1213
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,920
through and they say that's not our

1214
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:03,280
balloon that thing's moving far too

1215
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:05,200
quickly and so they're armed with these

1216
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:06,640
telescopes they are able to train their

1217
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:09,280
scope on this moving object and at the

1218
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:10,319
speed it's moving it's a little

1219
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,599
difficult to follow it but they got a

1220
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:13,440
fairly good look at it what do they

1221
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:15,839
describe it as a oval shaped you know

1222
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:17,680
light colored object that's moving very

1223
00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:18,640
quickly

1224
00:44:22,230 --> 00:44:20,319
obviously not the skyhook balloon that

1225
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:22,240
they were actually following

1226
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,119
this was at least as far as a good

1227
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:27,359
documented case and this was actually

1228
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:29,760
featured by nycap in their

1229
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:32,319
publication the ufo evidence which at

1230
00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:34,079
that time was essentially what they

1231
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:36,480
considered to be the best most reputable

1232
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,200
ufo data informed by witness sightings

1233
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:40,800
and other collected information that was

1234
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,960
on hand and available at that time this

1235
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,560
was published back in the 1960s i

1236
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,880
believe but that case appears early in

1237
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:48,480
the record because it is one of the

1238
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:50,000
earliest one of the best recorded

1239
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,160
sightings and also of interest to us

1240
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,319
today very similar in the description of

1241
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,119
the object to the famous nimitz incident

1242
00:45:01,589 --> 00:44:59,280
and it's not the only one this object

1243
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,599
this general shape as far as ufology

1244
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:03,440
goes has been recorded for many decades

1245
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:05,280
so you know this is something that's of

1246
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:06,960
interest to me if we try to look at

1247
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,960
these cases like 2004 in the nimitz

1248
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:11,119
incident and say well maybe china's out

1249
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,720
there maybe russia

1250
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:14,880
and that's actually a possibility some

1251
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:16,720
of these modern uap incidents very well

1252
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:18,560
could involve uh you know foreign

1253
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:21,040
adversarial technologies uh aviation

1254
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,560
journalist tai ragaway has made a very

1255
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:23,839
compelling argument that some of these

1256
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:25,680
may actually be low-level technologies

1257
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,079
that are attempting to try and gauge the

1258
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:30,560
efficacy of our radar systems and other

1259
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:32,480
technologies in use by these carrier

1260
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:33,680
strike groups

1261
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:35,119
but when we look back through history

1262
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,720
and we say okay back in the 40s or the

1263
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,880
50s when people saw an anomalous object

1264
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:40,640
that was very similar in description was

1265
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:43,520
that the soviet union was that china was

1266
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,680
any state actor including the united

1267
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:47,599
states that had a technology like that

1268
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:49,839
at that time the simple answer

1269
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:52,240
none that are known and if anybody did

1270
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:53,520
we have to rewrite the history of

1271
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:55,359
aviation folks

1272
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:56,640
not only that

1273
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:58,079
you know they would be used during

1274
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,359
wartime i mean why wouldn't they

1275
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:03,119
i mean if we had that that type of

1276
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:09,589
well certainly again this is a very

1277
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:11,760
important question if this technology

1278
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,680
was an experimental development that

1279
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:15,440
occurred as far back as the 40s or even

1280
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:16,880
as more you know let's say it was as

1281
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:19,200
recently as the 1970s or 80s

1282
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:20,480
you know would we not have seen this

1283
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:22,480
deployed during the gulf war you know

1284
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:24,000
would this not have been deployed at

1285
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,119
some point would this not have been

1286
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:27,040
revealed just like the b2 spirit you

1287
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:28,640
know the stealth bomber

1288
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,400
just like any other

1289
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:32,800
once secret technologies again the u2

1290
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:34,720
that was used back in the 1950s you know

1291
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,119
the cold war spy plane technology

1292
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:38,960
these you know aircraft cooked up out

1293
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:41,440
there at groom lake and actually flown

1294
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,599
and used for aerial reconnaissance of

1295
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,599
the soviet union during the cold war

1296
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:47,520
eventually we learned about those too

1297
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,960
and you know that brings to mind martin

1298
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,400
the very interesting conversation i had

1299
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:52,400
a few years ago with robert schaefer uh

1300
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:54,000
the noted skeptic

1301
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:56,000
you know i'd asked him one time i said

1302
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,480
do you think that there are are earthly

1303
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,319
technologies that might account for some

1304
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:02,560
of these sightings he said no no

1305
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:04,319
i don't think so because if that were

1306
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,000
the case those technologies would have

1307
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:08,400
been revealed to us by now so again

1308
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:10,560
robert is right there with us if these

1309
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,839
were ours

1310
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,359
that would have been revealed most

1311
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,960
likely these wouldn't have remained

1312
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:16,880
secret there would have been some

1313
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:19,599
operational use and there would thereby

1314
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,119
have been reporting on this or it would

1315
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:23,280
have been declassified or disclosed to

1316
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:25,280
the public as other aviation

1317
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:26,800
developments now again that's a bit of a

1318
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:29,119
supposition on our part the broader

1319
00:47:31,990 --> 00:47:30,559
point i'm trying to emphasize is that

1320
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,000
essentially exactly what you and i are

1321
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,079
discussing and making a i think a fairly

1322
00:47:38,549 --> 00:47:36,880
logical likely argument for skeptics has

1323
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,559
said the same thing too

1324
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:40,000
now where we would differ is that he

1325
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,680
would say those really anomalous

1326
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:43,920
sounding aircraft are no misperceptions

1327
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,520
some are hoaxes some are natural

1328
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,760
phenomena but they're misidentified no

1329
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:49,839
you or i might say well maybe there's

1330
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:51,839
something more to it but what's really

1331
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:53,200
again this coming back to the recent

1332
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:54,319
videos

1333
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,400
you know the 2004 footage appears to

1334
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,160
show an object that's very similar not

1335
00:48:02,069 --> 00:48:00,079
only to what the pilot said that they'd

1336
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,079
encountered that day but also that the

1337
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:04,079
history of ufology shows us that people

1338
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:05,680
have actually said they've encountered

1339
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:07,839
for many decades on many occasions so

1340
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:10,000
here again we have to ask ourselves if

1341
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,839
this is a phenomenon that people have

1342
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:13,520
described seeing we now have footage

1343
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,000
that appears to correlate with a modern

1344
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,599
sighting of one of these and by military

1345
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:19,680
service men and women no less can we

1346
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:20,960
really continue to say these are just

1347
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,040
hoaxes misperceptions you know celestial

1348
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:25,040
phenomena and what have you what appears

1349
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:27,119
in that video indistinct though it may

1350
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,880
be it looks pretty interesting and it

1351
00:48:32,829 --> 00:48:30,640
looks a lot like the history of ufology

1352
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:32,839
and what it has told us about now for

1353
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:35,119
decades right you know in the you know

1354
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,240
the first frustrating part has been

1355
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:41,359
um when i've been listening along uh the

1356
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:42,720
last you know 10 years that i've been

1357
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:44,079
doing this show

1358
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:45,359
uh when

1359
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:48,880
people will talk about the technology

1360
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,920
that they're seeing and and only state

1361
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,160
it as if it's been around for the last

1362
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:56,480
few years only and not

1363
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:58,559
go back and look at historical cases

1364
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,040
that's the one thing about what the uh

1365
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:03,280
task force was doing i believe they

1366
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:06,000
wouldn't look at anything before i can't

1367
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:08,079
remember the date but it was sometime in

1368
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:10,800
the 2000s uh they were not going to look

1369
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:13,520
at anything historic uh earlier than

1370
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:15,839
that because they said the technology

1371
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:17,040
for the data

1372
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:19,760
wasn't is not available uh enough to

1373
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,200
give a really clear picture of what's

1374
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,549
so uh

1375
00:49:31,349 --> 00:49:28,549
yeah i'm sorry go ahead martin no no i i

1376
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:31,359
was basically just finishing up uh

1377
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,760
so that you know they it's too bad it's

1378
00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:35,599
the old case of throwing you know the

1379
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:37,359
baby out with the bathwater not taking a

1380
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,760
look at the historical cases i believe i

1381
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:41,520
spoke with that the last time lou

1382
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,720
alexander was on on the show and he more

1383
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,079
or less agreed

1384
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,480
um with that that there should be

1385
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,640
historic cases looked into with the data

1386
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:52,319
that

1387
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:55,280
does exist

1388
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,319
just to make the case that if these

1389
00:50:00,790 --> 00:50:00,000
technologies were

1390
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:00,800
um

1391
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:03,839
available back in 1965 then why haven't

1392
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,880
we seen them if there are adversaries or

1393
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:08,480
some you know black project the

1394
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:12,240
government has or something

1395
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:13,920
yeah certainly you know again i think

1396
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:16,079
that the sort of i think it might be

1397
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:18,400
fair to call it a fixation

1398
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:20,240
that people have on the modern cases to

1399
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:22,400
your point it does seem to have a lot to

1400
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:23,760
do

1401
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:28,319
with the idea that in the early 2000s

1402
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,599
our navy

1403
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:31,760
and of course the air force ii and other

1404
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,839
branches of the military began to update

1405
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:35,520
their equipment

1406
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,200
and this is worthy of some discussion

1407
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:39,200
here actually because i've seen many

1408
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:41,200
seth showstack you know has

1409
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:43,599
rightly asked what is it about our navy

1410
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:44,880
aircraft you know why do they keep

1411
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,319
seeing these things

1412
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,000
well one of the reasons seems to have

1413
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:50,640
been the fact that in the early 2000s

1414
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:53,119
the navy had just updated not only their

1415
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,359
fa-18 fighter craft

1416
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:56,960
with the targeting pod we were

1417
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:58,800
discussing earlier the raytheon's at

1418
00:51:02,870 --> 00:51:01,119
flear but they also had updated their

1419
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:02,880
radar systems you know they no longer

1420
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:05,680
had a machine controlled directional

1421
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:08,400
radar they actually now have these

1422
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,720
phased array radars also built by

1423
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:12,720
raytheon that are able to very quickly

1424
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:15,280
scan electronically and cover a much

1425
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:17,920
wider scope of the you know the area

1426
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:20,160
around them than the earlier actually

1427
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:22,160
this was based on 1980s technology

1428
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:23,839
radars that they've been equipped with

1429
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:25,119
before that

1430
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:26,800
most of those upgrades according to my

1431
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:29,599
understanding began in around 2007

1432
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:30,960
and then you know over the course of the

1433
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:32,720
next several years as they were updating

1434
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:33,839
these and these fleets were being

1435
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:34,960
deployed

1436
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:36,319
people had pointed out and obviously

1437
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:37,680
actually these updates had occurred a

1438
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,359
little earlier in the case of the nimitz

1439
00:51:44,549 --> 00:51:41,760
incident because that was in 2004 but

1440
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,559
case in point they had recently upgraded

1441
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:46,880
again the uss princeton has its spy one

1442
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:49,359
bravo you know radar you can see the uh

1443
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:50,960
in the footage if you or or if you look

1444
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,720
at photographs of the princeton you'll

1445
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,480
see this kind of hexagonal pad on the

1446
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:56,640
front of the ship now i'm no expert in

1447
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:58,240
these military technologies there are

1448
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:59,680
many people out there who are tai

1449
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,599
ragaway who i mentioned of the war zone

1450
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:03,359
is certainly one of them you know and i

1451
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:05,040
also spoke with the servicemen you

1452
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,559
probably have as well of course gary

1453
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:08,000
voorhees kevin day and people who

1454
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,760
actually served on board the princeton

1455
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:11,040
i've talked with him about this a bit

1456
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:12,400
too but the point is is that these

1457
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:14,800
upgrades had occurred fairly recently

1458
00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:16,480
and mentioning the war zone there for a

1459
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:17,839
moment they were the first actually to

1460
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,680
report on the fact that hey you know

1461
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:21,359
what it was right after these upgrades

1462
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,960
occurred and they were equipped with

1463
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:24,559
these new radar systems these new

1464
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:25,920
tracking pods and there were certain

1465
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:27,920
other technologies too

1466
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,520
that's when they start observing these

1467
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,200
objects and they start picking up things

1468
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:33,839
which again one might make the argument

1469
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:35,440
they had been there

1470
00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:37,680
yeah so long but now they were equipped

1471
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,359
to detect these things and you know a

1472
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:41,440
historical corollary for this martin

1473
00:52:43,829 --> 00:52:42,720
goes all the way back to the second

1474
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:43,839
world war

1475
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:49,200
united states canada germany and then

1476
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:50,800
shortly thereafter other nations too

1477
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:52,480
britain of course also they began to

1478
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:55,920
institute radar systems in wartime and

1479
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,920
this new technology

1480
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:59,359
essentially accompanies what when we

1481
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,640
start seeing first of all actually

1482
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:02,319
during the theater over europe and also

1483
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:04,400
over the portions of the pacific these

1484
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:05,920
accounts involving sightings of

1485
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,160
so-called foo fighters and what have you

1486
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:10,000
and it was in the years after the second

1487
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:11,839
world war once the conflict was over

1488
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:14,000
with we really start seeing not only

1489
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:15,599
people saying they see things in the sky

1490
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:17,440
but now we can also corroborate those

1491
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,200
visual sightings with this new

1492
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:21,200
technology these radar systems

1493
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,400
for a long time there have been people

1494
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,920
who have tried to argue the first

1495
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:25,680
appearances of the ufos occur right

1496
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:27,680
after we use nuclear weapons well you

1497
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:29,680
know if we take into account the foo

1498
00:53:32,710 --> 00:53:31,040
fighter sightings

1499
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:32,720
that's not necessarily true if those

1500
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:35,119
represent ufo technologies some of those

1501
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:36,480
sightings occurred well before they were

1502
00:53:40,670 --> 00:53:38,880
use of nuclear weapons and this whole

1503
00:53:43,109 --> 00:53:40,680
idea that was kind of you know the

1504
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:43,119
proliferated for years that the

1505
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,559
the intelligence the phenomena whatever

1506
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:46,319
it is it was drawn to our use of nuclear

1507
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,680
technologies

1508
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:49,520
there's there's definitely some good

1509
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:51,920
information that's suggestive of

1510
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:54,880
the fact that uap are drawn to nuclear

1511
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:57,280
sites facilities uh you know aircraft

1512
00:54:00,069 --> 00:53:58,319
carriers

1513
00:54:01,750 --> 00:54:00,079
that's definitely a component in all

1514
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,760
this that we could talk about but i

1515
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:03,280
don't think that we should say that that

1516
00:54:07,589 --> 00:54:05,839
is where the modern ufology as we know

1517
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,599
it really begins i would say

1518
00:54:10,950 --> 00:54:09,119
technologically that's when we were

1519
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,960
beginning to be equipped to be able to

1520
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:12,720
determine that there were objects in the

1521
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:14,319
sky people had said they'd seen things

1522
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,200
for decades maybe centuries before that

1523
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:18,720
and again that gets a little further

1524
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,720
back in time you go far enough back it's

1525
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,040
harder to corroborate those historical

1526
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:25,200
accounts but there certainly are some

1527
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:26,880
accounts involving anomalous aerial

1528
00:54:31,109 --> 00:54:28,880
phenomena throughout the ages that at

1529
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:31,119
least bear similarity to some of the

1530
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:32,800
modern accounts and it's intriguing to

1531
00:54:36,069 --> 00:54:34,319
entertain that idea that maybe these

1532
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:36,079
represent certain phenomena that have

1533
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:39,040
been with us much longer i totally agree

1534
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:40,960
and that that is something i've come up

1535
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:43,839
with uh in my thoughts as well

1536
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:45,920
that you know perhaps it's

1537
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,680
it's not that uh

1538
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:49,440
you know we're just seeing these

1539
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:52,880
because they're just here now it's only

1540
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:54,480
uh we're seeing these because we have

1541
00:54:59,589 --> 00:54:56,559
the technology to see these things

1542
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:59,599
differently than we ever had before so i

1543
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:00,720
i

1544
00:55:28,470 --> 00:55:26,160
haven't seen before and you know many

1545
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:28,480
times i've we i've mentioned on this

1546
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,480
program too we only see

1547
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,480
physically see in a very small spectrum

1548
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:34,480
of what is out there and we don't may

1549
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:36,319
not even have

1550
00:55:39,910 --> 00:55:38,000
the idea how to

1551
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:39,920
uh have you know create equipment that

1552
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:42,720
can see completely where we can't

1553
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:44,720
you know because we may not understand

1554
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,559
you know the the waves or whatever it is

1555
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:50,079
well you know again we when we look at

1556
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,559
some of these modern accounts what we

1557
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:54,880
are often hearing about are sightings of

1558
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:56,720
things that occurred either they were

1559
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:58,640
seen through you know the actual cockpit

1560
00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:59,920
display they were observed through

1561
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:02,079
infrared but they were more difficult to

1562
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:04,240
discern visually if it weren't for the

1563
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:06,000
radar or the infrared systems on board

1564
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:07,760
these aircraft these objects might not

1565
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:09,520
have been discerned at all so that is a

1566
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:10,559
compelling

1567
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:13,119
element to all this and i make no claims

1568
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:14,880
as to what the provenance is you know

1569
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,240
these phenomena how long they've been

1570
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:18,240
around again we're entertaining some

1571
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:20,720
ideas here but one might speculate that

1572
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:23,520
the fact that the technology has helped

1573
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:25,440
to augment human perception of the

1574
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,760
phenomenon may indicate that this could

1575
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:29,760
have been around for far longer and that

1576
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,680
we've just been limited in how much data

1577
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:33,839
we've been able to collect

1578
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:35,760
right and i know you go all the way back

1579
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:37,599
to you know we can't say the cave

1580
00:56:40,870 --> 00:56:39,680
paintings are accurate we don't know it

1581
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:40,880
could have been

1582
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:43,119
uh you know they're they're it may have

1583
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:44,400
been their

1584
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:47,040
their idea of what a god was or whatever

1585
00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:49,280
you know some people argue that the gods

1586
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:51,040
are coming from the sky those are aliens

1587
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:53,280
but you know who knows you know it's you

1588
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:54,240
can't

1589
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,640
time and see where these you know

1590
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:00,319
drawings and think cave drawings were

1591
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:02,559
coming from either

1592
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:05,920
um but you're down in an area right now

1593
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:08,079
where there's a lot of early history

1594
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:11,599
human history and uh and that whole you

1595
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:13,119
know central and south america is

1596
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:16,160
fascinating to me can you talk about uh

1597
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:17,280
you mentioned that you're doing some

1598
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:19,200
interviews can you talk about

1599
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:21,359
um any particular cases that you're

1600
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:23,359
researching or anything along those

1601
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,680
lines or people you're speaking with

1602
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,480
uh yeah i can and uh briefly i know that

1603
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:32,319
of course you and i both share an uh

1604
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:34,319
interest in archaeology martin and so

1605
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,680
it's it's great that you mentioned the

1606
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:36,960
fact that there's a long history of

1607
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:39,119
human uh involvement in south america

1608
00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:41,359
because i had the pleasure of talking a

1609
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:42,720
while back with

1610
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,680
um tom dillahey of vanderbilt university

1611
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:47,680
and he was the archaeologist that led

1612
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:49,680
the excavations at a site called

1613
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,480
monteverde in chile and that of course

1614
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,880
is a site that was first recognized for

1615
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:56,960
being earlier than what we recognized as

1616
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:59,040
clovis there are actually radiocarbon

1617
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,040
dates there from multiberry b

1618
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:03,119
they go back in excess of 30 000 years

1619
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,880
so as you mentioned yes

1620
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:06,240
humans have been here on the south

1621
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:08,640
american continent for a very long time

1622
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:10,240
that raises some intriguing questions

1623
00:58:13,510 --> 00:58:11,359
but they're beyond the scope of what

1624
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:13,520
we're discussing tonight as far as uav

1625
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:14,799
here in brazil

1626
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,480
uh you know last september i was down

1627
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:17,760
here in brazil

1628
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,240
again or that was my original

1629
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:22,480
trip i'm here again now and uh we

1630
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:24,799
visited the chapada dos villaderos which

1631
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:27,680
is a unesco world heritage site it's you

1632
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:28,960
know again most people when they think

1633
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:30,319
of brazil

1634
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:32,079
they think of you know the amazon

1635
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:34,400
rainforest shabbatos viaderos is very

1636
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:35,520
different

1637
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,160
it actually more closely resembles

1638
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:40,240
the african savannah

1639
00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:42,880
but there are these really beautiful

1640
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,359
uh river systems and waterfalls all

1641
00:58:50,549 --> 00:58:47,520
throughout the shapada

1642
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:50,559
and it's also known for its abundance of

1643
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:52,319
quartz quartz crystal in you know

1644
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,920
various parts especially around these

1645
00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:55,200
waterfalls and you can get out there in

1646
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,400
the water and you can kind of run your

1647
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:57,920
hands through the stone

1648
00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:59,280
and you'll see all these beautiful you

1649
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:01,680
know shaped uh crystals that come up in

1650
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,040
in your hand that have been hewn over

1651
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:05,520
time and that are kind of revealed by

1652
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:06,640
the water

1653
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:08,880
beautiful area but of course also in

1654
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:10,480
addition to its natural beauty there are

1655
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,240
many stories

1656
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,559
of sightings of aerial phenomenon to

1657
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:16,160
give a couple of examples the brazilian

1658
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:17,760
ufo magazine that i mentioned earlier

1659
00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:19,839
published by aj giavard

1660
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:22,000
described a case from shapada a number

1661
00:59:25,589 --> 00:59:23,599
of years ago where there was a group

1662
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,599
that had actually gone to the side

1663
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:27,280
and one of the nearby towns is called

1664
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:28,880
alto parisu

1665
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:30,400
and i've actually stayed for a few days

1666
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:32,079
in alto parisu and we spoke with some of

1667
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:33,200
the locals who had had their own

1668
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:34,559
encounters i'll get to that in a moment

1669
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:36,400
but the article was describing a tour

1670
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,000
group from that site

1671
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:39,920
and they had gone out to this location

1672
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:42,000
and one of the uh women who was with the

1673
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:42,960
tour

1674
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:46,240
suddenly vanished nobody could find her

1675
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:47,119
and

1676
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:48,559
they spend several minutes looking for

1677
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,000
her and then they say you know she's

1678
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:51,839
just gone they go and they get the local

1679
00:59:55,270 --> 00:59:53,359
police and they bring the police out and

1680
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:55,280
then after i think more than an hour

1681
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:57,040
they finally find the woman she comes

1682
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:58,960
stumbling up toward

1683
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:01,119
the tour group she's a little you know

1684
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:03,599
battered and bruised looking

1685
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:06,000
but she's okay and they said where were

1686
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:06,960
you

1687
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:08,880
and she said all i know is that i came

1688
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:10,720
to right over there and she points to an

1689
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:13,359
area just a few maybe 100 yards away and

1690
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:15,839
she says the last thing i remember

1691
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:18,000
was there being a very bright light and

1692
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:19,520
i walked toward it

1693
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:21,520
and then she vanished and and right

1694
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:22,559
there in the midst of all these other

1695
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:23,680
people

1696
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:25,359
now there were numerous locations in

1697
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:26,880
shapada which by the way you have to

1698
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,880
hire a guide to actually be able to go

1699
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:29,839
in there

1700
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:31,520
and one of the areas that we went down

1701
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:34,799
into our guide was telling us all about

1702
01:00:38,950 --> 01:00:37,119
how one night driving his pickup home

1703
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:38,960
back to alto pariso where he actually

1704
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,160
lives he said he was followed by a blue

1705
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:44,400
kind of orb of light that descended from

1706
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:45,359
the sky

1707
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,799
uh reached a level over the highway uh

1708
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:50,319
that it kind of

1709
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:52,960
you know maintained and it kept a pace

1710
01:00:56,710 --> 01:00:54,720
with his truck as it followed him down

1711
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,720
the road and it followed him almost all

1712
01:01:00,549 --> 01:00:58,160
the way to alta pariso and then turned

1713
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:00,559
off before he actually reached the town

1714
01:01:03,589 --> 01:01:02,480
but what he told us was that many of the

1715
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,599
locals have had these kinds of

1716
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:05,119
experiences there are certain

1717
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:06,799
superstitions you know everybody

1718
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,520
interprets things a lot differently

1719
01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:11,760
from what you probably think

1720
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:13,040
many people actually in the town

1721
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:14,799
embraced this and this was a big shock

1722
01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:17,280
to me i got to the town thinking oh okay

1723
01:01:20,549 --> 01:01:18,640
you know it will be interesting if

1724
01:01:22,390 --> 01:01:20,559
anybody talks at all about

1725
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:22,400
these alleged ufo sightings at this

1726
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:23,520
place

1727
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:25,680
but we got there at night the next day

1728
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:27,839
we go out and as we're walking around

1729
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:30,799
town there are i mean shops that are

1730
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:32,799
called you know the alia nisianas this

1731
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:34,880
is alien in brazilian portuguese you

1732
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:36,799
know the alien end there's a bed and

1733
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,480
breakfast that has a flying saucer out

1734
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:40,079
front there's a restaurant called area

1735
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:41,359
51.

1736
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:43,920
so yes i would liken it very much to

1737
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:45,119
roswell

1738
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:47,680
sedona arizona they very much embrace

1739
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:49,040
the culture

1740
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:51,200
and the whole in fact certain aspects of

1741
01:01:55,109 --> 01:01:53,599
american ufology as well but what's

1742
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:55,119
particularly interesting to me about

1743
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:57,039
that martin is that you know i've heard

1744
01:02:01,109 --> 01:01:58,880
commentators try to say that you know

1745
01:02:02,390 --> 01:02:01,119
ufos are a phenomenon that primarily

1746
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:02,400
only occur in the western world

1747
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:04,640
especially the united states this is a

1748
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,640
culture-bound phenomenon why don't

1749
01:02:10,390 --> 01:02:08,160
people see ufos in other parts of the

1750
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:10,400
world look i've got news for you there's

1751
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:11,839
as much interest there's as much

1752
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:13,359
cultural significance and there are as

1753
01:02:17,029 --> 01:02:15,599
many sightings and historical data in

1754
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:17,039
the support of these kinds of sightings

1755
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:20,880
in brazil as any place i've visited

1756
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:22,240
excellent wow

1757
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:24,000
uh yeah i

1758
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:26,559
it's it sounds fascinating sounds like

1759
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:29,039
uh you know you mentioned the word you

1760
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:30,559
mentioned the

1761
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:31,920
geological

1762
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:33,039
um

1763
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:34,720
aspect

1764
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:37,680
that's featured in that area as quartz

1765
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,280
and i find that

1766
01:02:44,230 --> 01:02:41,680
very interesting because you it just

1767
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:44,240
seems to be one of the

1768
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:47,119
things that often comes up in an area

1769
01:02:52,390 --> 01:02:49,760
where they consider like a hot spot

1770
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:52,400
um you know it's not just quartz but a

1771
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:55,680
lot of times you know like a high um you

1772
01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:56,880
know copper

1773
01:03:02,309 --> 01:02:58,960
uh content in the area or veins of

1774
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:02,319
copper and things like that um and so i

1775
01:03:08,549 --> 01:03:04,640
i find this this thing about quartz what

1776
01:03:12,309 --> 01:03:10,549
yes it is i find that interesting also

1777
01:03:14,630 --> 01:03:12,319
because again i'm a longtime student of

1778
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:14,640
william r corliss and uh you know the

1779
01:03:19,589 --> 01:03:17,680
idea that there are natural geophysical

1780
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,599
phenomena that produce

1781
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:21,119
what have variously been described as

1782
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:22,880
nocturnal lights all different kinds of

1783
01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:23,599
yeah

1784
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:25,440
and things along those lines

1785
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:27,760
uh but uh one of those hot spots that

1786
01:03:32,230 --> 01:03:30,160
you're talking about is brown mountain

1787
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:32,240
north carolina right yes you know i

1788
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:34,480
spent many many years went down to brown

1789
01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:36,720
mountain the the uh the uh elusive and

1790
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:39,359
enigmatic dr krazinski my host

1791
01:03:43,190 --> 01:03:41,359
down here in brazil actually came up to

1792
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:43,200
the united states and visited

1793
01:03:47,349 --> 01:03:46,000
and uh we went down to uh brown mountain

1794
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:47,359
and i've taken many people there over

1795
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,720
the years david weatherly of course a

1796
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:50,799
lot of researchers have joined me there

1797
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:52,160
i may have even appeared in a couple of

1798
01:03:55,990 --> 01:03:54,480
documentaries at that location but i

1799
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:56,000
bring it up here because

1800
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:58,319
not only are there earth lights as some

1801
01:04:02,390 --> 01:04:00,160
have called them or ufos you know

1802
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:02,400
anomalous aerial phenomena that are seen

1803
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:03,200
there

1804
01:04:13,990 --> 01:04:11,039
proper

1805
01:04:15,430 --> 01:04:14,000
with geologists and you know we not only

1806
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,440
see a lot of quartz there's also a lot

1807
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,280
of granite there are

1808
01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:19,440
uh you know what appear to be traces of

1809
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:21,760
you know magnetic uh or at least you

1810
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:24,160
know uh particles in the in the dust and

1811
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:25,520
the soil samples that we took that are

1812
01:04:28,950 --> 01:04:26,799
responsive

1813
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:28,960
to magnets but then again any number of

1814
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:30,880
you know you know traces of iron and you

1815
01:04:35,270 --> 01:04:32,400
know other kinds of you know natural

1816
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:35,280
metallic deposits could account for that

1817
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:36,799
but i mean one thing that you see more

1818
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:39,280
than anything else geologically is

1819
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:41,520
courts and there have been a lot of uh

1820
01:04:44,309 --> 01:04:42,880
theories over the years that have been

1821
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:44,319
proposed by those who are more the

1822
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:46,720
natural proponents of of uap and again

1823
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:48,880
this kind of echoes sort of what we see

1824
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:50,799
in the project condone report from the

1825
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:51,839
uk

1826
01:04:57,430 --> 01:04:54,000
which had been the genesis in modern

1827
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:57,440
times for the u.s military's use of uap

1828
01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:59,280
they actually state that we borrowed

1829
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:00,799
that from the uk

1830
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:02,319
well as in the project condone report

1831
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:04,640
where they say uap are real but we think

1832
01:05:09,029 --> 01:05:06,079
that these are natural they're probably

1833
01:05:11,029 --> 01:05:09,039
plasmas and one theory for the mechanism

1834
01:05:13,349 --> 01:05:11,039
that may allow for the appearances of

1835
01:05:15,109 --> 01:05:13,359
these plasmas is that in the quartz

1836
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:15,119
being piezoelectric

1837
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:16,319
is able to

1838
01:05:19,670 --> 01:05:18,000
produce once it's under pressure it's

1839
01:05:21,910 --> 01:05:19,680
able to produce electrical

1840
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:21,920
uh you know energy essentially like for

1841
01:05:25,589 --> 01:05:23,680
instance a simple example is you can

1842
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:25,599
take two pieces of quartz

1843
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:27,119
and if you go into a dark room and rub

1844
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,880
them together you'll see little sparks

1845
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:30,079
and you'll sometimes actually see the

1846
01:05:34,150 --> 01:05:32,160
quartz rocks you know glow

1847
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:34,160
uh this looks very strange but it's

1848
01:05:38,950 --> 01:05:36,400
simply just it's this piezoelectric

1849
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,960
process uh property that the quartz has

1850
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,799
and i don't know what the mechanism

1851
01:05:44,390 --> 01:05:42,240
would be that would allow for these you

1852
01:05:46,230 --> 01:05:44,400
know self-contained luminous orbs about

1853
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:46,240
the size of a basketball or a beach ball

1854
01:05:49,510 --> 01:05:47,760
to occur but people do report seeing

1855
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:49,520
these kinds of things at brown mountain

1856
01:05:52,309 --> 01:05:51,359
hestile in norway is another one i think

1857
01:05:53,589 --> 01:05:52,319
uh

1858
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,599
there's another location we have of

1859
01:05:56,549 --> 01:05:55,119
course the famous marfa lights down

1860
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:56,559
there in texas

1861
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:59,280
um there's another case uh or a location

1862
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:00,640
like this in arkansas where people

1863
01:06:05,109 --> 01:06:02,960
describe what they variously refer to as

1864
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:05,119
ghost lights you know spook lights uh

1865
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:07,760
you know swamp gas things like this now

1866
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:09,280
i don't think they're swamp gas by any

1867
01:06:13,750 --> 01:06:10,880
means that's kind of a dirty word in the

1868
01:06:15,829 --> 01:06:13,760
history of ufology yeah along

1869
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:15,839
the hart way but i do think that

1870
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:18,400
geophysical phenomena of an electrical

1871
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:20,400
variety could account for some of these

1872
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:22,960
uap sightings and what you picked up on

1873
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:24,880
there martin is exactly what i thought

1874
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:26,400
when we visited shapada i thought you

1875
01:06:29,910 --> 01:06:27,760
know with the abundance of courts in

1876
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:29,920
this region there's a pretty good case

1877
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:31,760
to be made that the phenomena people see

1878
01:06:35,670 --> 01:06:33,920
and describe you know is similar enough

1879
01:06:37,190 --> 01:06:35,680
to hasselin or brown mountain and maybe

1880
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:37,200
there is some sort of geophysical

1881
01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:39,920
phenomena that's occurring here as well

1882
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:41,920
yes i did a i did a show a while back

1883
01:06:47,109 --> 01:06:44,000
with someone that did a documentary on

1884
01:06:48,309 --> 01:06:47,119
on brown mountain um and i i thought it

1885
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:48,319
was very interesting at the time but

1886
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:50,400
that was several years ago but when you

1887
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:53,920
were there did you actually witness um

1888
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:56,240
did you witness lights when you were

1889
01:07:02,309 --> 01:07:01,109
on a couple of occasions i've observed

1890
01:07:04,470 --> 01:07:02,319
you know what you might call

1891
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:04,480
illuminations but

1892
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:05,920
you when you go down there and you talk

1893
01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:07,920
to the locals everyone who claims to

1894
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,280
have seen the brown mountain lights

1895
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:11,280
describes seeing it differently

1896
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:13,200
one of the most compelling accounts i

1897
01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:14,880
ever received was actually from a

1898
01:07:19,270 --> 01:07:16,720
firefighter who would back in the early

1899
01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:19,280
2000s that he'd been on duty and that it

1900
01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:22,079
was uh christmas eve several uh

1901
01:07:25,990 --> 01:07:23,680
firefighters who were traveling up and

1902
01:07:28,390 --> 01:07:26,000
down 181 highway 181 which goes right

1903
01:07:29,910 --> 01:07:28,400
alongside the brown mountain overlook

1904
01:07:31,589 --> 01:07:29,920
he said that they'd all

1905
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:31,599
seen what they described as looking

1906
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:33,200
almost like

1907
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:34,880
sheet lightning if you have ever seen

1908
01:07:38,150 --> 01:07:36,400
that those quick kind of flashes in the

1909
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,160
sky especially during you know the

1910
01:07:41,990 --> 01:07:40,480
summertime humid summer nights you see

1911
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:42,000
those quick kind of flashes off in the

1912
01:07:45,829 --> 01:07:44,079
distance he said something that looked

1913
01:07:47,589 --> 01:07:45,839
almost like that but moving sort of

1914
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:47,599
across the surface of the mountain at

1915
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:48,960
ground level

1916
01:07:53,190 --> 01:07:51,680
is what many of them observed uh and he

1917
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:53,200
said you know i know for a fact that the

1918
01:07:56,309 --> 01:07:55,039
so-called brown mountain lights exist

1919
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:56,319
but he says a lot of people come up here

1920
01:07:59,430 --> 01:07:57,920
and act like they're ufos say they're

1921
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:59,440
intelligent say they've communicated

1922
01:08:01,510 --> 01:08:00,720
with the lights and all this stuff he

1923
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:01,520
says

1924
01:08:04,630 --> 01:08:03,039
that's just people playing brown

1925
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:04,640
mountain lights but he says i can assure

1926
01:08:09,430 --> 01:08:06,960
you as a firefighter several people in

1927
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:09,440
our unit that night who are all working

1928
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:10,880
we all saw those lights and they're

1929
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:12,160
nothing like what are popularly

1930
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:13,359
described

1931
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:14,799
but then there are some who actually do

1932
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:16,799
describe aerial phenomena

1933
01:08:19,990 --> 01:08:18,560
charles braswell is a photographer from

1934
01:08:21,990 --> 01:08:20,000
down in charlotte north carolina who

1935
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:22,000
spent i mean years going up there and

1936
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:23,600
he's gotten some of the most compelling

1937
01:08:27,189 --> 01:08:25,600
photographs that i've ever seen

1938
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:27,199
of alleged

1939
01:08:32,470 --> 01:08:29,920
luminous aerial phenomena that occurs at

1940
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:32,480
night i also have to mention the

1941
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,319
photography of my friend bill fox and

1942
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:36,080
the late bob ashmore

1943
01:08:40,390 --> 01:08:38,560
uh bill and bob and i have spent many

1944
01:08:42,870 --> 01:08:40,400
years going up there and sadly uh last

1945
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:42,880
year bob ashmore passed away but

1946
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:44,480
bob and bill of course are long-time

1947
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:46,480
citizen scientists bob also formerly

1948
01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:48,000
worked at bell laboratories and they had

1949
01:08:52,550 --> 01:08:48,640
a

1950
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:52,560
hobby they would come come down on the

1951
01:08:56,390 --> 01:08:54,640
summers you know and everything and uh

1952
01:08:57,910 --> 01:08:56,400
they get to come down twice a year the

1953
01:08:59,349 --> 01:08:57,920
first trip is to bring their wives down

1954
01:09:00,709 --> 01:08:59,359
for shopping and then the second time is

1955
01:09:02,630 --> 01:09:00,719
to come down hike around and try and see

1956
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:02,640
the brown mountain lights but

1957
01:09:06,229 --> 01:09:04,640
bob and bill and i spent many many

1958
01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:06,239
evenings up there at brown mountain with

1959
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:08,480
cameras telescopes things they got some

1960
01:09:13,110 --> 01:09:10,960
good photographs sadly i have not had

1961
01:09:15,510 --> 01:09:13,120
that sighting so to answer your question

1962
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:15,520
that full-on well that's indisputably

1963
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,440
one of the brown mountain lights

1964
01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:19,440
i haven't had that sighting but a

1965
01:09:23,189 --> 01:09:20,799
gentleman who i interviewed a number of

1966
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:23,199
years ago saw something perhaps even

1967
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:24,880
more extraordinary at brown mountain he

1968
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:27,359
had gone up there to the famous overlook

1969
01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:30,560
at uh wiseman's view and he was trying

1970
01:09:33,829 --> 01:09:32,480
to observe the lights and he said there

1971
01:09:35,669 --> 01:09:33,839
was another family up there that night

1972
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,679
from charlotte north carolina and they'd

1973
01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:36,960
been chatting and he said all of a

1974
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:39,920
sudden what came into view

1975
01:09:45,189 --> 01:09:42,560
startled him he said there was a large

1976
01:09:47,110 --> 01:09:45,199
distinctly triangular shaped aircraft

1977
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:47,120
moving completely silently it was very

1978
01:09:50,630 --> 01:09:48,799
large he estimated it was about the size

1979
01:09:52,229 --> 01:09:50,640
of a football field uh with this

1980
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:52,239
distinct kind of leading edge and he

1981
01:09:55,590 --> 01:09:54,000
said this thing silently just drifted

1982
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:55,600
over the linville gorge

1983
01:09:59,910 --> 01:09:57,520
and he said you know i wish after the

1984
01:10:01,750 --> 01:09:59,920
fact that this family from charlotte and

1985
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:01,760
i had exchanged information because they

1986
01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:04,000
all saw it we all marveled at what this

1987
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:06,239
big triangle was flying over the lumbal

1988
01:10:09,750 --> 01:10:08,159
gorge now

1989
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:09,760
what does that sound like martin i mean

1990
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,040
you and i have heard these stories for

1991
01:10:15,189 --> 01:10:13,360
years of these so-called black triangles

1992
01:10:17,030 --> 01:10:15,199
right those reports really really

1993
01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:17,040
interest me but i've never heard of one

1994
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:19,520
being seen at brown mountain before that

1995
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:22,000
yeah yeah and it's funny how many people

1996
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:24,000
describe them the size of a football

1997
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,520
field or more

1998
01:10:28,550 --> 01:10:27,199
i mean it's it's almost like every time

1999
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:28,560
you hear the same

2000
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:30,640
the same thing or you know

2001
01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:33,760
um or or even larger than that

2002
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:35,280
pretty amazing

2003
01:10:38,630 --> 01:10:37,120
yeah that's a consistent that's a very

2004
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:38,640
consistent feature of these sightings

2005
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,440
you know i mean again there was the

2006
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:41,920
famous belgium wave from back in the

2007
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,679
early 1990s

2008
01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:45,520
but a lot of researchers have taken

2009
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:47,840
interest in those black triangle reports

2010
01:10:50,950 --> 01:10:49,280
i mean for a time the federation of

2011
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:50,960
american scientists

2012
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:53,760
had several pages online devoted to what

2013
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:55,360
they called mystery aircraft and they've

2014
01:11:00,310 --> 01:10:58,560
been collecting a lot of reports of what

2015
01:11:03,110 --> 01:11:00,320
were variously called everything from

2016
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:03,120
the big wing to the black triangles

2017
01:11:05,990 --> 01:11:04,880
uh there were a lot of different names a

2018
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:06,000
lot of different theories about what

2019
01:11:09,669 --> 01:11:08,159
these things might have been greg pope

2020
01:11:11,910 --> 01:11:09,679
who had been a writer for popular

2021
01:11:13,270 --> 01:11:11,920
mechanics back in the 1990s

2022
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:13,280
did a lot of research going out there

2023
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:15,280
the antelope valley and and interviewing

2024
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:16,480
people about what they had said that

2025
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,600
they'd seen

2026
01:11:20,470 --> 01:11:18,960
one of the theories at that time had

2027
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,480
been that some of these large aircraft

2028
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:23,199
were actually a large aerial radar

2029
01:11:26,229 --> 01:11:24,480
reflector

2030
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:26,239
kind of a kind of a technology rather

2031
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:28,560
than being so much a actual aircraft

2032
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:30,000
another theory had been that these are

2033
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:31,840
an aircraft and that there's some kind

2034
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:34,560
of a platform blimp uh perhaps used uh

2035
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:37,280
you know for stealth purposes uh in in

2036
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,320
service to or to coordinate with fighter

2037
01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:42,320
aircraft now if these had ever been

2038
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:45,520
deployed for for use during combat

2039
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:47,120
coming back to our earlier point i think

2040
01:11:50,229 --> 01:11:48,400
a lot of people would describe having

2041
01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:50,239
seen these large triangles

2042
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:51,760
i've actually only heard a couple of

2043
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:52,880
stories

2044
01:11:57,430 --> 01:11:54,719
of triangular aircraft

2045
01:11:58,950 --> 01:11:57,440
seen in wartime uh one friend of mine

2046
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:58,960
who had actually uh served in

2047
01:12:01,590 --> 01:12:00,239
afghanistan

2048
01:12:02,950 --> 01:12:01,600
he had said of all places he was

2049
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:02,960
actually at the latrine one night and

2050
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:04,960
he'd been standing out there and he said

2051
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:07,120
he looked up and he

2052
01:12:11,110 --> 01:12:08,800
saw and

2053
01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:11,120
what he perceived as being silent

2054
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,719
uh but it was a triangular shaped

2055
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:14,880
aircraft that passed directly over him

2056
01:12:18,790 --> 01:12:16,960
uh in the direction of the nearby city

2057
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,800
uh and i asked him i said could you hear

2058
01:12:22,149 --> 01:12:20,480
any noise and he said well

2059
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:22,159
i couldn't but you know we had

2060
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:24,239
generators and things running out there

2061
01:12:27,430 --> 01:12:26,000
and it might have been difficult for me

2062
01:12:29,350 --> 01:12:27,440
to discern whether or not this object

2063
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:29,360
made any noise but he said i mean i'm

2064
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:32,159
going to tell you we saw aircraft coming

2065
01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:34,080
in and out you know this area all the

2066
01:12:37,350 --> 01:12:35,440
time and i've never seen anything like

2067
01:12:38,950 --> 01:12:37,360
that and then there was a similar report

2068
01:12:40,470 --> 01:12:38,960
that was indicated to me by a military

2069
01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:40,480
uh i think he was actually part of

2070
01:12:44,630 --> 01:12:42,239
military police who said he'd observed a

2071
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:44,640
craft like this one night

2072
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:46,880
and that he only got a very brief look

2073
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:47,679
at it

2074
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:48,960
brought it to the attention of a couple

2075
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:51,360
of nearby guards and plane clothes

2076
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:52,880
uh who when he brought it to their

2077
01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:54,080
attention they said we didn't see

2078
01:13:02,470 --> 01:13:00,470
yeah one of the you know one of the

2079
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:02,480
things when you think about the triangle

2080
01:13:07,270 --> 01:13:05,679
and and what you uh i've heard this the

2081
01:13:09,669 --> 01:13:07,280
the thought that it could be some type

2082
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:09,679
of blimp but it wouldn't make to me it

2083
01:13:13,270 --> 01:13:11,440
wouldn't make any sense

2084
01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:13,280
to have a blimp in the shape of a

2085
01:13:18,390 --> 01:13:15,920
triangle i wouldn't see what advantage

2086
01:13:22,070 --> 01:13:18,400
that would have unless i'm missing

2087
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:22,080
something and uh and and why

2088
01:13:24,310 --> 01:13:23,280
uh

2089
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:24,320
you know

2090
01:13:30,310 --> 01:13:28,400
when you're talking about this size

2091
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,320
uh when something doesn't have to be

2092
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,800
flat and and wide you know where would

2093
01:13:36,149 --> 01:13:34,480
you how would you put something like

2094
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:36,159
that in the hangar you know when it

2095
01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:38,560
comes to that size yeah

2096
01:13:44,709 --> 01:13:43,030
certainly i do know that there was a

2097
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:44,719
rand corporation study that was

2098
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:47,600
conducted on air ships and blimps i have

2099
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:49,199
not been able to find that report in

2100
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:50,800
fact i'm not sure that that was ever

2101
01:13:55,189 --> 01:13:52,800
made publicly available

2102
01:13:56,550 --> 01:13:55,199
uh but uh actually i sorry i don't think

2103
01:13:57,830 --> 01:13:56,560
that was a rand corporation study that

2104
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:57,840
may have actually been conducted by

2105
01:14:03,350 --> 01:13:59,679
another group but i've i've been trying

2106
01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:03,360
to get a copy of this report for years

2107
01:14:07,510 --> 01:14:05,120
but to the point of

2108
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:07,520
the blimp argument again i'm more

2109
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:09,199
inclined to think that

2110
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:11,040
our military might use certain kinds of

2111
01:14:13,590 --> 01:14:12,000
stealth

2112
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:13,600
technologies that have not been publicly

2113
01:14:16,950 --> 01:14:15,679
disclosed for various reasons then i am

2114
01:14:19,110 --> 01:14:16,960
to think

2115
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:19,120
that the sightings of these so-called

2116
01:14:24,470 --> 01:14:21,760
giant triangles the black triangles are

2117
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:24,480
simply your average everyday blimp uh

2118
01:14:28,149 --> 01:14:26,000
you know i have communicated over the

2119
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:28,159
years a little with uh brian dunning of

2120
01:14:33,270 --> 01:14:30,640
the skeptoid podcast and i like brock

2121
01:14:34,470 --> 01:14:33,280
yeah nice guy but right he's tried to

2122
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:34,480
argue that

2123
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:36,000
uh the famous saint clair county

2124
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:38,560
illinois sightings from back in 2000

2125
01:14:43,110 --> 01:14:40,640
which david marler as you know has just

2126
01:14:45,910 --> 01:14:43,120
done incredible work investigating those

2127
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:48,229
this is the main argument that brian has

2128
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:50,159
tried to present is that this was just

2129
01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:51,600
one of the american airship companies

2130
01:14:54,550 --> 01:14:52,640
blimps

2131
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:54,560
uh that was out there giving a guided

2132
01:14:58,229 --> 01:14:56,719
vip tour that night and i'm asking of

2133
01:15:00,870 --> 01:14:58,239
course you know well who was taking a

2134
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:00,880
vip tour at 3 a.m where is the flat log

2135
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:02,480
that shows that it was anybody taking a

2136
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:05,520
vip tour at 3 a.m and furthermore why

2137
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,600
did you know all these police from i

2138
01:15:11,110 --> 01:15:09,600
think the millstead county and then the

2139
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:11,120
shiloh police department and there were

2140
01:15:13,990 --> 01:15:12,320
several other municipal police

2141
01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:14,000
departments with officers that were

2142
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:15,600
involved in observing this object that

2143
01:15:20,070 --> 01:15:17,760
night i think david marlar has

2144
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:20,080
chronicled this in his book uh

2145
01:15:23,669 --> 01:15:21,679
triangular ufos an estimate of the

2146
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:23,679
situation which everybody should go and

2147
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:25,520
check out but again if you read that

2148
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:26,960
book and you read the accounts given by

2149
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:28,800
the officers yet again they all describe

2150
01:15:33,430 --> 01:15:31,280
a distinctly triangular aircraft yet

2151
01:15:35,669 --> 01:15:33,440
again about the size of a football field

2152
01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:35,679
it was very large made very little sound

2153
01:15:41,189 --> 01:15:38,400
it had three lights one at each corner

2154
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:41,199
and also was capable of drifting along

2155
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:43,360
very slowly and then sudden acceleration

2156
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:45,040
almost kind of like if you've ever seen

2157
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:47,280
a water bug on the surface of a pond

2158
01:15:49,590 --> 01:15:48,239
where they'll kind of speed up and

2159
01:15:51,030 --> 01:15:49,600
they'll move along and they'll glide and

2160
01:15:52,070 --> 01:15:51,040
then they'll kind of come to a slow stop

2161
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:52,080
and they'll hover for a minute and then

2162
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:54,640
they'll move again very quickly

2163
01:15:59,030 --> 01:15:56,560
these triangular craft are sometimes

2164
01:16:01,270 --> 01:15:59,040
described as kind of moving in bursts

2165
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:01,280
like that and whatever it is that these

2166
01:16:06,390 --> 01:16:04,640
objects are that also sounds very unlike

2167
01:16:08,070 --> 01:16:06,400
a typical blimp

2168
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:08,080
if indeed they are capable of the kind

2169
01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:10,000
of maneuvers that some have described

2170
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:11,600
seeing them do so

2171
01:16:14,950 --> 01:16:13,199
again i'm open to the idea that maybe we

2172
01:16:17,430 --> 01:16:14,960
have some kind of technology like this

2173
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:17,440
we don't always necessarily immediately

2174
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:20,000
need to leap to the conclusion therefore

2175
01:16:23,430 --> 01:16:21,520
aliens right but

2176
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:23,440
i'm also

2177
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:25,679
i'm not very i'm not very inclined to

2178
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:27,199
say that this was just a conventional

2179
01:16:32,229 --> 01:16:29,760
blimp and if it was i mean show me a

2180
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:32,239
good record of the flight logs giving me

2181
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:34,640
good data that really strongly supports

2182
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:35,840
that conclusion because all the

2183
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:37,440
eyewitness testimony seems to go in

2184
01:16:42,870 --> 01:16:39,840
exactly the opposite direction

2185
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:42,880
uh micah i've have uh and i was having

2186
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:46,880
trouble at this hotel with uh internet

2187
01:16:52,790 --> 01:16:49,440
but unfortunately i've run out of data

2188
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:52,800
on my uh on my on my phone

2189
01:16:57,430 --> 01:16:54,960
so i like you it was using my phone and

2190
01:16:58,950 --> 01:16:57,440
i just got to notice i'm gonna have to

2191
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:58,960
uh jump out for a minute but you'll

2192
01:17:02,550 --> 01:17:00,960
still be live here and i'm wondering if

2193
01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:02,560
you can tell people a little bit about

2194
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:04,880
your show and how they can catch it

2195
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:07,440
and uh and then i will uh

2196
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:10,719
i'll be back as soon as i can

2197
01:17:14,390 --> 01:17:12,560
absolutely and i'm glad i'm not the only

2198
01:17:15,990 --> 01:17:14,400
one who's been experiencing trouble uh

2199
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:16,000
you know my tech support crew here

2200
01:17:19,750 --> 01:17:18,159
tonight did a marvelous job getting us

2201
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:19,760
back on the line and i got to thank

2202
01:17:25,430 --> 01:17:22,400
rafael and danny uh who are here tonight

2203
01:17:28,390 --> 01:17:25,440
who who made that happen because we had

2204
01:17:29,669 --> 01:17:28,400
obviously an area-wide outage and those

2205
01:17:31,350 --> 01:17:29,679
who think that the men in black are

2206
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:31,360
exclusive to the united states think

2207
01:17:33,990 --> 01:17:32,400
again

2208
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,000
but all kidding aside you know my

2209
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:36,000
program is the mecca hanks program

2210
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:38,640
you can find that at micah hanks.com

2211
01:17:43,270 --> 01:17:40,960
forward slash podcast i actually produce

2212
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:43,280
a lot of different podcasts and there

2213
01:17:46,149 --> 01:17:44,560
are four of them right now plus

2214
01:17:47,189 --> 01:17:46,159
subscriber shows that i produce for

2215
01:17:48,790 --> 01:17:47,199
everybody

2216
01:17:50,470 --> 01:17:48,800
um and that in addition to what i'm

2217
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:50,480
doing over there at the debrief.org

2218
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:51,840
which is something else that i'm pretty

2219
01:17:55,430 --> 01:17:53,120
well known for these days i'm the

2220
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:55,440
editor-in-chief and also a contributor

2221
01:18:00,149 --> 01:17:57,600
also the newsletter writer for the

2222
01:18:01,910 --> 01:18:00,159
debrief and this is endeavor

2223
01:18:04,950 --> 01:18:01,920
that i've undertaken recently with tim

2224
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:04,960
mcmillan and mj binayas

2225
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:07,280
not exclusively uap but we do do a lot

2226
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:09,040
of uap reporting same deal with the

2227
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:11,280
micah hanks program it's not only a

2228
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:12,960
program that deals with uap but there

2229
01:18:17,910 --> 01:18:15,679
have been i mean almost every week

2230
01:18:20,709 --> 01:18:17,920
significant developments with this topic

2231
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:20,719
and so i've really in recent years

2232
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:23,120
shifted my focus over onto that and so

2233
01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:24,480
when folks go online and they find the

2234
01:18:28,310 --> 01:18:25,760
mike hanks program you can hear that

2235
01:18:29,990 --> 01:18:28,320
right here on kgra by the way

2236
01:18:33,110 --> 01:18:30,000
it's a program that you're going to hear

2237
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:33,120
a lot of analysis a lot of discussions

2238
01:18:38,830 --> 01:18:35,040
about this topic that's so familiar to

2239
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:41,189
ufo not sure if martin's back yet so we

2240
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,120
could just talk a little bit yes

2241
01:18:48,470 --> 01:18:45,600
no no i just came back um hopefully this

2242
01:18:49,350 --> 01:18:48,480
is working you can hear me okay

2243
01:18:51,910 --> 01:18:49,360
sure

2244
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:51,920
yeah okay absolutely i'm pretty glad not

2245
01:18:56,070 --> 01:18:54,880
only me being affected tonight

2246
01:18:58,390 --> 01:18:56,080
right

2247
01:19:00,709 --> 01:18:58,400
um so i i've got a couple of questions

2248
01:19:01,750 --> 01:19:00,719
that have come up in chat and um i'd

2249
01:19:03,510 --> 01:19:01,760
like to

2250
01:19:05,350 --> 01:19:03,520
uh ask them because tonight since you're

2251
01:19:06,830 --> 01:19:05,360
using that phone line hopefully i'm

2252
01:19:08,229 --> 01:19:06,840
coming through clear

2253
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:08,239
enough um

2254
01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:09,120
uh

2255
01:19:12,149 --> 01:19:10,640
let's see since we can't use the phone

2256
01:19:13,510 --> 01:19:12,159
line i'm asking anyone that has

2257
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:13,520
questions if you want to just put them

2258
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:15,840
in all caps that would be good so

2259
01:19:22,070 --> 01:19:18,080
richard wanted to know uh is the goal of

2260
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:22,080
ufology to mainstream the study of ufos

2261
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:24,320
if so what is the methodology to achieve

2262
01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:26,800
this any thoughts on that micah

2263
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,760
okay

2264
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:29,840
so the question is is is the goal to

2265
01:19:33,510 --> 01:19:31,679
bring ufology into the mainstream and if

2266
01:19:34,830 --> 01:19:33,520
so how do we do that well

2267
01:19:38,310 --> 01:19:34,840
i would say

2268
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:38,320
that you know yes the idea is to bring

2269
01:19:42,310 --> 01:19:40,400
ufology into the mainstream the problem

2270
01:19:43,990 --> 01:19:42,320
with that though

2271
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:44,000
i'm a musician and

2272
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:46,000
everybody who has ever played in a rock

2273
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:48,400
band uh probably knows what it's like

2274
01:19:51,510 --> 01:19:50,159
you know when there's this cool new band

2275
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:51,520
on the scene

2276
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:53,040
and you go see that band and you're like

2277
01:19:56,550 --> 01:19:54,960
wow this is my band you get to hang out

2278
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:56,560
with the band members

2279
01:20:01,030 --> 01:19:59,679
uh you know and if that band is lucky

2280
01:20:02,470 --> 01:20:01,040
and they strike it big and they get a

2281
01:20:03,750 --> 01:20:02,480
record deal and then you you can't go

2282
01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:03,760
hang out with your buddies at the bar

2283
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:04,960
anymore you know they're touring and

2284
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,040
playing you know big arenas

2285
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:09,360
then the the fans who were once you know

2286
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:10,719
the local supporters of that band

2287
01:20:14,629 --> 01:20:12,000
they're like oh well now we're really

2288
01:20:17,189 --> 01:20:14,639
disappointed they sold out

2289
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:17,199
and i'm afraid that when ufology

2290
01:20:19,750 --> 01:20:18,480
if it goes into the mainstream you

2291
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:19,760
probably see where i'm going with this

2292
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:21,360
if you apology

2293
01:20:24,709 --> 01:20:22,560
which has been something that there's

2294
01:20:26,229 --> 01:20:24,719
sort of been kind of a counter culture

2295
01:20:28,310 --> 01:20:26,239
that surrounds it you know people who go

2296
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:28,320
to conferences and who you know put put

2297
01:20:32,390 --> 01:20:30,719
up you know tables at these conferences

2298
01:20:34,550 --> 01:20:32,400
in the vendor rooms and they sell books

2299
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:34,560
and they and actually i enjoy that a lot

2300
01:20:38,390 --> 01:20:36,239
of people do i've always enjoyed that

2301
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:38,400
sort of cultural side of this but as

2302
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:40,560
soon as this becomes a thing which as in

2303
01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:42,800
recent years we have begun to see

2304
01:20:47,030 --> 01:20:44,719
where the u.s navy comes out and says

2305
01:20:48,790 --> 01:20:47,040
we've got videos the pentagon comes out

2306
01:20:50,629 --> 01:20:48,800
and it officially

2307
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:50,639
authorizes the release of these videos

2308
01:20:54,629 --> 01:20:52,320
so as to help try and clear the air and

2309
01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:54,639
say yes these things are ours yes these

2310
01:20:59,990 --> 01:20:56,800
objects are unidentified

2311
01:21:01,590 --> 01:21:00,000
and then we establish this aoi msg right

2312
01:21:03,430 --> 01:21:01,600
this airborne object identification

2313
01:21:07,510 --> 01:21:03,440
management and synchronization group

2314
01:21:10,629 --> 01:21:09,270
yeah i love that one i mean it just

2315
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:10,639
rolls right off the tongue but but the

2316
01:21:13,910 --> 01:21:12,400
point is again that you know as soon as

2317
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:13,920
government really makes this a thing and

2318
01:21:17,430 --> 01:21:16,080
now everybody's like finally

2319
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:17,440
finally they're taking this subject

2320
01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:19,920
seriously and now no longer

2321
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:21,920
are those civilian ufo researchers the

2322
01:21:25,189 --> 01:21:23,760
ones in the spotlight everybody wants to

2323
01:21:26,709 --> 01:21:25,199
hear what the government officials have

2324
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:26,719
to say about this

2325
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:28,560
and there are still some you know old

2326
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:31,760
guard ufo ufo researchers uh who have

2327
01:21:36,310 --> 01:21:33,840
maintained a presence and who you know

2328
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:36,320
the the analysis and the feedback that

2329
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:38,000
they provide is as relevant as ever if

2330
01:21:41,910 --> 01:21:40,480
not more so but everybody i think can

2331
01:21:43,350 --> 01:21:41,920
acknowledge that there's been a bit of a

2332
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:43,360
shift toward you know if it ain't coming

2333
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:44,320
from the government we don't want to

2334
01:21:48,790 --> 01:21:46,560
hear about it it's not news unless it

2335
01:21:50,229 --> 01:21:48,800
was the leaked document that somebody

2336
01:21:51,910 --> 01:21:50,239
either got through foia or if it was

2337
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:51,920
official announcement or proclamation

2338
01:21:55,990 --> 01:21:53,840
from the dod via a press statement that

2339
01:21:57,669 --> 01:21:56,000
appeared at defense.gov you know that

2340
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:57,679
seems to be where everybody's focus is

2341
01:22:01,750 --> 01:21:59,360
but again we look back to history and

2342
01:22:03,189 --> 01:22:01,760
folks this has happened before

2343
01:22:04,709 --> 01:22:03,199
project blue book under the u.s air

2344
01:22:06,870 --> 01:22:04,719
force was the longest-running government

2345
01:22:08,629 --> 01:22:06,880
systematic study that looked at uap yes

2346
01:22:10,950 --> 01:22:08,639
we are maybe more equipped to study this

2347
01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:10,960
with better technology than in years

2348
01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:13,760
past but again i doubt that we're

2349
01:22:18,709 --> 01:22:16,560
probably going to solve this and resolve

2350
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,719
the lingering questions about uap i

2351
01:22:21,510 --> 01:22:20,400
think if anything what we'll see more of

2352
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:21,520
right now

2353
01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:23,120
is simply going to be an acknowledgement

2354
01:22:26,950 --> 01:22:24,719
that hey you know what people military

2355
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:26,960
service men and women civilians alike

2356
01:22:29,990 --> 01:22:28,560
had said that they'd been seeing in our

2357
01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:30,000
skies yeah now

2358
01:22:34,550 --> 01:22:32,320
we have a better idea on the fact that

2359
01:22:36,950 --> 01:22:34,560
these objects exist but we're really no

2360
01:22:38,709 --> 01:22:36,960
closer to determining their provenance

2361
01:22:40,709 --> 01:22:38,719
but again in terms of how do we do this

2362
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:40,719
and and what happens when we do this

2363
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:42,080
when we bring upology into the

2364
01:22:46,390 --> 01:22:43,920
mainstream first i think there has to be

2365
01:22:48,149 --> 01:22:46,400
that acknowledgement i think that in

2366
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:48,159
order to do this we have to continue to

2367
01:22:52,149 --> 01:22:50,400
try and leverage certain pressure on

2368
01:22:53,590 --> 01:22:52,159
lawmakers in washington you know reach

2369
01:22:55,189 --> 01:22:53,600
out to your elected officials your

2370
01:22:57,030 --> 01:22:55,199
senators your congressmen and women let

2371
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:57,040
them know that this is important to you

2372
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:59,600
you know support the efforts of civilian

2373
01:23:03,990 --> 01:23:01,600
organizations scientific groups my

2374
01:23:05,590 --> 01:23:04,000
friend dr avi loeb of course and the

2375
01:23:07,030 --> 01:23:05,600
galileo project

2376
01:23:09,110 --> 01:23:07,040
this is something that is absolutely

2377
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:09,120
necessary because as avi has said the

2378
01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:11,199
skies aren't classified and even if the

2379
01:23:14,310 --> 01:23:12,320
government isn't going to release all

2380
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:14,320
the data it collects when scientists are

2381
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:15,920
taking this seriously and actively

2382
01:23:18,629 --> 01:23:17,520
pursuing trying to collect data on it

2383
01:23:19,910 --> 01:23:18,639
themselves

2384
01:23:21,270 --> 01:23:19,920
again there's less likelihood that

2385
01:23:23,270 --> 01:23:21,280
that's going to be withheld from the

2386
01:23:25,750 --> 01:23:23,280
general public so those are ways that i

2387
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:25,760
think we can continue to really leverage

2388
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:27,760
the kind of momentum we've seen in

2389
01:23:31,590 --> 01:23:30,320
recent years i hope that continues but

2390
01:23:32,709 --> 01:23:31,600
there's going to be that bittersweet

2391
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:32,719
side of it where a lot of people are

2392
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:34,000
going to feel like their favorite band

2393
01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:36,719
sold out and the ufo subject that was

2394
01:23:40,790 --> 01:23:38,800
their subject at their conferences that

2395
01:23:43,590 --> 01:23:40,800
they went to every summer it may not be

2396
01:23:45,430 --> 01:23:43,600
that for them any longer but i hope that

2397
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:45,440
the trade-off will be for the better and

2398
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:46,880
that we'll finally begin to get some

2399
01:23:49,750 --> 01:23:48,480
clarity and some attention put on a

2400
01:23:51,270 --> 01:23:49,760
subject that many people have been

2401
01:23:52,950 --> 01:23:51,280
pushing for that kind of attention for

2402
01:23:54,790 --> 01:23:52,960
for years

2403
01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:54,800
i agree and there's been a lot of

2404
01:23:58,070 --> 01:23:56,880
attacks on certain people that have

2405
01:23:59,750 --> 01:23:58,080
tried to move

2406
01:24:01,830 --> 01:23:59,760
the needle forward

2407
01:24:03,669 --> 01:24:01,840
you know just because of exactly what

2408
01:24:05,990 --> 01:24:03,679
you're saying you know there's

2409
01:24:07,910 --> 01:24:06,000
egos involved there's

2410
01:24:09,990 --> 01:24:07,920
there's a division

2411
01:24:11,510 --> 01:24:10,000
out there and you know nothing you can

2412
01:24:14,470 --> 01:24:11,520
really do about that it seems like

2413
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:14,480
that's follows about every aspect of our

2414
01:24:18,870 --> 01:24:17,760
society anyway um get another question

2415
01:24:21,110 --> 01:24:18,880
up here

2416
01:24:24,629 --> 01:24:21,120
uh by someone that likes you

2417
01:24:26,790 --> 01:24:24,639
so um what could be the reason ufos are

2418
01:24:28,070 --> 01:24:26,800
visible to only a few people sometimes

2419
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:28,080
despite

2420
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:31,360
appearing in a fairly populated area

2421
01:24:39,910 --> 01:24:37,270
yeah it's it's always nice to hear that

2422
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:39,920
somebody does still like me

2423
01:24:42,790 --> 01:24:40,639
but

2424
01:24:44,790 --> 01:24:42,800
uh you know there's there are a lot of

2425
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:44,800
different uh and again that's another

2426
01:24:49,990 --> 01:24:46,800
funny thing about all this is that

2427
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:50,000
uh as a reporter as as again i dread to

2428
01:24:53,189 --> 01:24:51,360
call myself a journalist but i guess

2429
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:53,199
that is what i do and i used to work in

2430
01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:54,159
radio

2431
01:24:58,149 --> 01:24:56,480
i've tried to credibly report on this

2432
01:24:59,430 --> 01:24:58,159
subject for more than a decade myself

2433
01:25:01,110 --> 01:24:59,440
going all the way back to my days

2434
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:01,120
working in terrestrial radio and now the

2435
01:25:04,709 --> 01:25:02,080
team and i

2436
01:25:07,030 --> 01:25:04,719
continue to try and uh you know work in

2437
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:07,040
that sphere with the debrief but you're

2438
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:08,880
always going to have people that if you

2439
01:25:12,390 --> 01:25:10,800
are attempting to report credibly on

2440
01:25:14,310 --> 01:25:12,400
this subject they say what's your really

2441
01:25:15,750 --> 01:25:14,320
motiva you know your real modus operandi

2442
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:15,760
why are you uh

2443
01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:17,440
are you a dis info agent you know and we

2444
01:25:20,550 --> 01:25:18,880
joke about that a lot but i mean a lot

2445
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:20,560
of people do actually believe that so i

2446
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:21,760
really appreciate the people who still

2447
01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:23,040
support me

2448
01:25:27,750 --> 01:25:25,280
but it's worth the question you know why

2449
01:25:29,910 --> 01:25:27,760
might some people see something

2450
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:29,920
and uh and others might not

2451
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:32,080
this is interesting too because

2452
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:33,760
there is some literature that's

2453
01:25:39,270 --> 01:25:36,960
suggestive of some people maybe having

2454
01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:39,280
uh and again i refer again to the work

2455
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:41,360
of william r corliss who documented all

2456
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,280
kinds of anomalous phenomena in nature

2457
01:25:46,950 --> 01:25:45,440
including biological nature and also

2458
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:46,960
anomalous

2459
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:48,639
observations you know with regard to

2460
01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:49,520
humans

2461
01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:51,679
there is at least some data that

2462
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:55,440
supports people who have a a deeper

2463
01:26:01,350 --> 01:25:58,639
capability i guess to perceive light

2464
01:26:02,709 --> 01:26:01,360
in near darkness than other people do

2465
01:26:04,070 --> 01:26:02,719
and one

2466
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:04,080
theory i mean this is entirely

2467
01:26:07,669 --> 01:26:05,520
speculative but we might

2468
01:26:09,270 --> 01:26:07,679
hypothesize that some some people

2469
01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:09,280
actually possess

2470
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:11,760
a better ability to perceive you know in

2471
01:26:15,830 --> 01:26:13,920
near darkness they may have even be able

2472
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:15,840
to perceive you know closer to the

2473
01:26:19,750 --> 01:26:18,000
infrared spectrum now again that's not

2474
01:26:22,709 --> 01:26:19,760
the visible blood band of life that's

2475
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:22,719
not the the actual spectrum that humans

2476
01:26:25,189 --> 01:26:24,320
have evolved to be able to operate in

2477
01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:25,199
but

2478
01:26:29,270 --> 01:26:26,719
if we were to speculate that some people

2479
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,280
had a limited ability to perceive

2480
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:32,159
more in that area of the electromagnetic

2481
01:26:35,110 --> 01:26:34,000
spectra that we're talking about the

2482
01:26:38,229 --> 01:26:35,120
infrared

2483
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:38,239
that might explain some people's alleged

2484
01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:40,320
ability to see objects where others

2485
01:26:43,590 --> 01:26:41,360
cannot

2486
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:43,600
and again i reference the navy videos

2487
01:26:48,149 --> 01:26:45,760
where pilots in many cases if you refer

2488
01:26:50,550 --> 01:26:48,159
to the 2019 new york times article where

2489
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:50,560
ryan graves and other servicemen and

2490
01:26:54,149 --> 01:26:52,320
women were quoted

2491
01:26:55,990 --> 01:26:54,159
talking about how you know a couple

2492
01:26:57,510 --> 01:26:56,000
times these things were seen but more

2493
01:26:59,669 --> 01:26:57,520
often than not people only saw them in

2494
01:27:01,270 --> 01:26:59,679
the infrared that seems to indicate one

2495
01:27:03,189 --> 01:27:01,280
of a couple of things either these are

2496
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:03,199
objects that are by virtue of their

2497
01:27:07,830 --> 01:27:05,840
design or whatever they may be

2498
01:27:09,990 --> 01:27:07,840
they operate and they appear only in the

2499
01:27:12,470 --> 01:27:10,000
infrared or they appear to and this

2500
01:27:15,189 --> 01:27:12,480
seems to be the opinion of the military

2501
01:27:17,669 --> 01:27:15,199
that these things are capable of uh

2502
01:27:19,669 --> 01:27:17,679
using signal management and other kinds

2503
01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:19,679
of again what we would call i think in

2504
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:22,000
sci-fi parlance cloaking technologies

2505
01:27:25,189 --> 01:27:23,840
but i prefer signal management because

2506
01:27:27,430 --> 01:27:25,199
what it appears to be is some kind of

2507
01:27:28,950 --> 01:27:27,440
electromagnetic

2508
01:27:30,550 --> 01:27:28,960
technology

2509
01:27:31,990 --> 01:27:30,560
used we can only speculate about what it

2510
01:27:35,030 --> 01:27:32,000
is and how it might work but it is used

2511
01:27:37,030 --> 01:27:35,040
to you know make them less visible both

2512
01:27:39,110 --> 01:27:37,040
in the visible spectrum and also it's to

2513
01:27:41,430 --> 01:27:39,120
help them be you know able to evade

2514
01:27:45,990 --> 01:27:41,440
radar a little better they are able to

2515
01:27:47,750 --> 01:27:46,000
uh perhaps even jam or or or confuse

2516
01:27:49,830 --> 01:27:47,760
equipment technologies that would be

2517
01:27:51,110 --> 01:27:49,840
used to detect these objects

2518
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:51,120
these are all things these are all

2519
01:27:55,750 --> 01:27:52,960
characteristics that some uap have been

2520
01:27:58,310 --> 01:27:55,760
observed doing by our military as

2521
01:28:00,310 --> 01:27:58,320
related in the odni report from last

2522
01:28:02,149 --> 01:28:00,320
summer and again the frustrating part is

2523
01:28:05,030 --> 01:28:02,159
that we don't have specifics on what

2524
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:05,040
kinds of of you know frequency and

2525
01:28:10,070 --> 01:28:07,520
signals management specifically is being

2526
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:10,080
done most of that's redacted and i will

2527
01:28:13,910 --> 01:28:12,320
here again call attention to the recent

2528
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:13,920
release by john greenwald of the

2529
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:15,360
classified version of that report that

2530
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:17,120
he managed to get just a little longer

2531
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:19,120
than the one that we all saw last summer

2532
01:28:22,470 --> 01:28:20,719
but there's still a lot more information

2533
01:28:24,310 --> 01:28:22,480
in there i'm hoping in the future we can

2534
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:24,320
get some of those redactions removed but

2535
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:25,920
again the broader point is if some of

2536
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:27,600
these objects are capable of operating

2537
01:28:32,709 --> 01:28:30,080
primarily in the infrared and that the

2538
01:28:33,910 --> 01:28:32,719
human eye is incapable of seeing them

2539
01:28:35,590 --> 01:28:33,920
you know whether they are natural

2540
01:28:36,790 --> 01:28:35,600
whether they are technological whatever

2541
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:36,800
they may be

2542
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:38,880
that might be one reason why some people

2543
01:28:42,149 --> 01:28:40,400
claim hey you know i actually saw a

2544
01:28:43,750 --> 01:28:42,159
light i saw an object it was faint but

2545
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:43,760
there was something in the sky when a

2546
01:28:47,510 --> 01:28:45,520
person next to him might say i didn't

2547
01:28:50,470 --> 01:28:47,520
see anything

2548
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:50,480
right no that happens a lot you do hear

2549
01:28:55,270 --> 01:28:52,880
you do hear a lot of times where

2550
01:28:57,430 --> 01:28:55,280
you know people be standing side by side

2551
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:57,440
and like look do you see that or or

2552
01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:59,360
they'll see two different entirely

2553
01:29:02,149 --> 01:29:00,719
different things

2554
01:29:03,590 --> 01:29:02,159
which is another

2555
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:03,600
another one of the mysteries out there

2556
01:29:07,669 --> 01:29:05,679
if you ask me

2557
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:07,679
it is and i'll briefly just add martin

2558
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:09,280
that i mean some would also say and i

2559
01:29:12,550 --> 01:29:10,800
think that this is at least worthy of

2560
01:29:14,070 --> 01:29:12,560
entertaining i try not to get too too

2561
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:14,080
speculative when we're talking about

2562
01:29:16,390 --> 01:29:15,360
these things you know just the facts

2563
01:29:18,070 --> 01:29:16,400
ma'am but

2564
01:29:20,149 --> 01:29:18,080
there is the consciousness side of this

2565
01:29:22,229 --> 01:29:20,159
where some might argue that well

2566
01:29:24,149 --> 01:29:22,239
maybe being able to see these objects

2567
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:24,159
requires a you know a shift of your

2568
01:29:29,189 --> 01:29:26,800
perspective or even your consciousness

2569
01:29:31,590 --> 01:29:29,199
there are the anecdotes about you know

2570
01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:31,600
the indigenous americans who first

2571
01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:35,040
encountered europeans and sometimes they

2572
01:29:39,669 --> 01:29:36,960
didn't perceive

2573
01:29:40,870 --> 01:29:39,679
their large sailing vessels

2574
01:29:42,149 --> 01:29:40,880
of course as being sailing vessels

2575
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:42,159
because they never encountered anything

2576
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:43,760
like that now that may be

2577
01:29:48,709 --> 01:29:46,560
uh you know somewhat not just anecdotal

2578
01:29:50,629 --> 01:29:48,719
but it actually may be

2579
01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:50,639
you know an entire misperception of of

2580
01:29:54,709 --> 01:29:52,480
the accounts that were given by people

2581
01:29:56,550 --> 01:29:54,719
at that period you know when contact

2582
01:29:58,870 --> 01:29:56,560
between europe and the new world first

2583
01:30:01,350 --> 01:29:58,880
occurred but you know again the idea

2584
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:01,360
that a person whose frame of reference

2585
01:30:04,870 --> 01:30:03,520
is so far outside of the technology that

2586
01:30:07,270 --> 01:30:04,880
they're observing that they don't

2587
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:07,280
observe it and even witness it and and

2588
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,280
perceive it as being a technology is

2589
01:30:13,590 --> 01:30:11,760
compelling to me and you do hear that

2590
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:13,600
argument raised from time to time if we

2591
01:30:16,790 --> 01:30:15,360
were really to see an alien spaceship i

2592
01:30:19,030 --> 01:30:16,800
see neil degrasse tyson and people all

2593
01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:19,040
the time saying oh come on guys we would

2594
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:21,520
know a spaceship if we saw one i have to

2595
01:30:25,990 --> 01:30:23,760
say would we really are we really so

2596
01:30:27,830 --> 01:30:26,000
sure we would recognize

2597
01:30:29,910 --> 01:30:27,840
such an advanced technology if it were

2598
01:30:32,310 --> 01:30:29,920
entering our atmosphere i mean it might

2599
01:30:33,990 --> 01:30:32,320
be perceived in a number of ways and in

2600
01:30:35,590 --> 01:30:34,000
fact if it's far enough outside of our

2601
01:30:36,950 --> 01:30:35,600
frame of reference it may be perceived

2602
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:36,960
as oh i didn't really see that and

2603
01:30:40,390 --> 01:30:38,480
people just discount it which is

2604
01:30:41,350 --> 01:30:40,400
precisely what many do with ufos isn't

2605
01:30:44,070 --> 01:30:41,360
it

2606
01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:44,080
right right i have sort of a

2607
01:30:47,590 --> 01:30:45,840
oh i don't want to say love hate

2608
01:30:50,229 --> 01:30:47,600
relationship i don't want to use that

2609
01:30:52,390 --> 01:30:50,239
but i have kind of you know

2610
01:30:55,510 --> 01:30:52,400
back and forth thoughts about neil

2611
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:55,520
degrasse tyson i was actually looking

2612
01:30:59,910 --> 01:30:57,920
to go see him he's going to be in boston

2613
01:31:01,910 --> 01:30:59,920
in september and i thought well you know

2614
01:31:03,590 --> 01:31:01,920
a friend of mine and i were thinking

2615
01:31:05,430 --> 01:31:03,600
about and maybe even my son as well

2616
01:31:07,910 --> 01:31:05,440
thinking about going to see him and then

2617
01:31:09,669 --> 01:31:07,920
i saw the minimum tickets

2618
01:31:12,790 --> 01:31:09,679
were 106

2619
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:12,800
excuse me it's not a rock band

2620
01:31:17,030 --> 01:31:15,440
i don't i don't understand where he gets

2621
01:31:20,070 --> 01:31:17,040
off uh

2622
01:31:22,390 --> 01:31:20,080
and maybe he can fill a stadium at 106

2623
01:31:23,350 --> 01:31:22,400
plus some seats are 300 something

2624
01:31:27,510 --> 01:31:23,360
dollars

2625
01:31:31,189 --> 01:31:29,590
i i did put up a clip

2626
01:31:33,669 --> 01:31:31,199
smart

2627
01:31:35,430 --> 01:31:33,679
yeah he's as close to a rock star as far

2628
01:31:36,870 --> 01:31:35,440
as physicists go he's about as close to

2629
01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:36,880
being a rock star as you could get isn't

2630
01:31:41,830 --> 01:31:39,520
he so i mean i guess so

2631
01:31:44,470 --> 01:31:41,840
i guess so yeah but you know i mean as

2632
01:31:48,149 --> 01:31:44,480
far as his close-mindedness

2633
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:48,159
on the ufa ufo topic you know i put

2634
01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:49,920
together a little clip that's on my

2635
01:31:55,189 --> 01:31:52,719
channel somewhere where he basically is

2636
01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:55,199
saying you know that um

2637
01:31:58,870 --> 01:31:56,000
when

2638
01:31:59,750 --> 01:31:58,880
science and science you have to know

2639
01:32:04,390 --> 01:31:59,760
when

2640
01:32:06,629 --> 01:32:04,400
understand or you don't know but he

2641
01:32:09,270 --> 01:32:06,639
doesn't he he goes and makes these

2642
01:32:11,830 --> 01:32:09,280
claims that you know why is it only

2643
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:11,840
military or seeing you know ufos that

2644
01:32:15,910 --> 01:32:13,920
type of thing so he can be in my opinion

2645
01:32:17,590 --> 01:32:15,920
he can be rather arrogant and not

2646
01:32:18,950 --> 01:32:17,600
open-minded like a scientist should be

2647
01:32:21,990 --> 01:32:18,960
when it comes to

2648
01:32:25,030 --> 01:32:22,000
um what people are seeing for ufos uaps

2649
01:32:28,790 --> 01:32:26,870
indeed well you know i'll just point out

2650
01:32:30,950 --> 01:32:28,800
i have gone i've seen him talk i like

2651
01:32:32,870 --> 01:32:30,960
neil i appreciate what he does as far as

2652
01:32:35,590 --> 01:32:32,880
you know uh science

2653
01:32:37,669 --> 01:32:35,600
uh you know as a science communicator i

2654
01:32:38,870 --> 01:32:37,679
appreciate what he does but when i see

2655
01:32:41,270 --> 01:32:38,880
people

2656
01:32:43,750 --> 01:32:41,280
asking him on on you know the mainstream

2657
01:32:45,430 --> 01:32:43,760
media shows on the in the news cycles

2658
01:32:47,189 --> 01:32:45,440
about ufos

2659
01:32:49,430 --> 01:32:47,199
i have to step back and ask you know how

2660
01:32:50,950 --> 01:32:49,440
is he or why is he supposed to be any

2661
01:32:53,030 --> 01:32:50,960
more an expert

2662
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:53,040
on this purported anomalous aerial

2663
01:32:56,149 --> 01:32:54,239
phenomena

2664
01:32:58,070 --> 01:32:56,159
than anybody else i mean because he's

2665
01:32:59,990 --> 01:32:58,080
and i i think it was allison camaro that

2666
01:33:00,950 --> 01:33:00,000
actually said at one point but you look

2667
01:33:02,629 --> 01:33:00,960
it through it you know you look at the

2668
01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:02,639
sky through a telescope so you are an

2669
01:33:06,149 --> 01:33:04,000
expert on this

2670
01:33:07,830 --> 01:33:06,159
to which he responded no

2671
01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:07,840
i'm not an expert on this he says i'm

2672
01:33:11,030 --> 01:33:09,920
glad our military is looking into it

2673
01:33:12,310 --> 01:33:11,040
because they're the very ones who need

2674
01:33:14,310 --> 01:33:12,320
to be looking at these things if these

2675
01:33:16,070 --> 01:33:14,320
things are in our airspace our military

2676
01:33:17,430 --> 01:33:16,080
aircraft are encountering these things i

2677
01:33:18,950 --> 01:33:17,440
want the military looking at them but he

2678
01:33:20,790 --> 01:33:18,960
said no that's not what i do i study

2679
01:33:22,629 --> 01:33:20,800
stars they're way out there

2680
01:33:24,390 --> 01:33:22,639
and you know to his point

2681
01:33:26,550 --> 01:33:24,400
he what he's really saying is no i'm not

2682
01:33:28,550 --> 01:33:26,560
a ufo expert and if there are objects we

2683
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:28,560
can't identify let's let the military

2684
01:33:33,189 --> 01:33:30,960
look at those but to your point martin

2685
01:33:34,709 --> 01:33:33,199
there have been many instances where

2686
01:33:36,709 --> 01:33:34,719
neil has said things like you know if

2687
01:33:39,110 --> 01:33:36,719
these fuzzy videos are the best that

2688
01:33:40,310 --> 01:33:39,120
we've got i ain't impressed

2689
01:33:41,750 --> 01:33:40,320
well let's break that down really

2690
01:33:44,310 --> 01:33:41,760
quickly this is some of the most

2691
01:33:46,310 --> 01:33:44,320
sophisticated tracking equipment in use

2692
01:33:48,310 --> 01:33:46,320
by our military right now

2693
01:33:51,830 --> 01:33:48,320
and they claim that they are using this

2694
01:33:53,830 --> 01:33:51,840
technology to track and to film objects

2695
01:33:55,750 --> 01:33:53,840
that are very fast they are very

2696
01:33:57,430 --> 01:33:55,760
difficult to detect let alone to lock

2697
01:33:58,629 --> 01:33:57,440
onto into film

2698
01:34:00,790 --> 01:33:58,639
if indeed we are looking at a

2699
01:34:03,590 --> 01:34:00,800
significantly advanced technology that

2700
01:34:05,910 --> 01:34:03,600
makes itself very unavailable to the

2701
01:34:07,990 --> 01:34:05,920
best technology that we have

2702
01:34:09,510 --> 01:34:08,000
those aren't little fuzzy unimpressive

2703
01:34:10,950 --> 01:34:09,520
videos to me those are some of the most

2704
01:34:12,390 --> 01:34:10,960
important videos that have ever ever

2705
01:34:14,149 --> 01:34:12,400
been made and again when they were

2706
01:34:16,229 --> 01:34:14,159
released officially

2707
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:16,239
by the dod in april of 2020 and they

2708
01:34:19,830 --> 01:34:18,000
referred to them as historical navy

2709
01:34:21,430 --> 01:34:19,840
videos i think that's a great way to

2710
01:34:23,030 --> 01:34:21,440
describe them i think one day we will

2711
01:34:25,189 --> 01:34:23,040
look back on those three videos that you

2712
01:34:26,709 --> 01:34:25,199
and i have talked about so much tonight

2713
01:34:28,229 --> 01:34:26,719
and we will recognize them as being

2714
01:34:29,350 --> 01:34:28,239
historic in the sense that they were the

2715
01:34:31,910 --> 01:34:29,360
first

2716
01:34:34,550 --> 01:34:31,920
albeit an imperfect and a fairly crude

2717
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:34,560
attempt but they were a first attempt at

2718
01:34:37,590 --> 01:34:35,760
filming

2719
01:34:39,430 --> 01:34:37,600
and observing a phenomenon that people

2720
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:39,440
have claimed to see for quite a while

2721
01:34:42,629 --> 01:34:41,600
and that in the future i hope with any

2722
01:34:44,629 --> 01:34:42,639
luck we're going to learn a whole lot

2723
01:34:47,189 --> 01:34:44,639
more about

2724
01:34:49,109 --> 01:34:47,199
right um you know this probably

2725
01:34:50,550 --> 01:34:49,119
well according to you i'm sure you've

2726
01:34:52,310 --> 01:34:50,560
heard this as you

2727
01:34:53,270 --> 01:34:52,320
you you really pay attention to the

2728
01:34:55,189 --> 01:34:53,280
topic

2729
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:55,199
but um you know the supposedly there's

2730
01:35:00,310 --> 01:34:58,000
this 23-minute video that we're all

2731
01:35:02,629 --> 01:35:00,320
going to get to see where i thought it

2732
01:35:05,350 --> 01:35:02,639
was going to be last year but eventually

2733
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:05,360
um that lou elizondo is pretty certain

2734
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:07,280
that you know we're going to be seeing

2735
01:35:09,990 --> 01:35:08,960
at some point and i'll be very

2736
01:35:11,910 --> 01:35:10,000
interested

2737
01:35:14,390 --> 01:35:11,920
in seeing that and that has to do with

2738
01:35:16,310 --> 01:35:14,400
multiple ufos and you know so because

2739
01:35:17,910 --> 01:35:16,320
what we have so far these little clips

2740
01:35:19,669 --> 01:35:17,920
that are what i don't know how many

2741
01:35:21,910 --> 01:35:19,679
seconds long but not long

2742
01:35:23,109 --> 01:35:21,920
and according to

2743
01:35:24,470 --> 01:35:23,119
um

2744
01:35:26,629 --> 01:35:24,480
what i've

2745
01:35:27,590 --> 01:35:26,639
have heard the reason we don't see more

2746
01:35:29,910 --> 01:35:27,600
of those

2747
01:35:31,590 --> 01:35:29,920
is because it might reveal something you

2748
01:35:32,629 --> 01:35:31,600
know top secret and maybe the way we're

2749
01:35:33,830 --> 01:35:32,639
capturing

2750
01:35:36,470 --> 01:35:33,840
um

2751
01:35:38,149 --> 01:35:36,480
or whatever there's something

2752
01:35:40,149 --> 01:35:38,159
supposedly that has to do with why we're

2753
01:35:43,990 --> 01:35:40,159
only seeing such

2754
01:35:48,709 --> 01:35:46,950
yeah and there are some issues with that

2755
01:35:49,750 --> 01:35:48,719
uh which again to your point i've heard

2756
01:35:52,390 --> 01:35:49,760
a lot of these

2757
01:35:54,070 --> 01:35:52,400
i've heard virtually every one of these

2758
01:35:55,510 --> 01:35:54,080
claims that there are longer versions of

2759
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:55,520
the videos that we know about and then

2760
01:35:58,709 --> 01:35:56,880
that there are entirely other videos

2761
01:35:59,990 --> 01:35:58,719
that we haven't heard anything about

2762
01:36:01,350 --> 01:36:00,000
i don't doubt that there are lots of

2763
01:36:02,870 --> 01:36:01,360
videos out there you know but part of

2764
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:02,880
the problem is

2765
01:36:07,669 --> 01:36:05,760
i guess knowing what to ask for

2766
01:36:09,350 --> 01:36:07,679
knowing what to look for

2767
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:09,360
i mean even if you if you work within

2768
01:36:12,709 --> 01:36:11,280
government you have to know what to go

2769
01:36:13,790 --> 01:36:12,719
looking for

2770
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:13,800
and then there is you know a

2771
01:36:17,109 --> 01:36:15,840
declassification process that you know

2772
01:36:18,629 --> 01:36:17,119
one is supposed to go through but of

2773
01:36:20,390 --> 01:36:18,639
course what was ultimately determined

2774
01:36:22,629 --> 01:36:20,400
about the current existing three navy

2775
01:36:24,390 --> 01:36:22,639
videos is they were unclassified for

2776
01:36:26,070 --> 01:36:24,400
special use only and there wasn't any

2777
01:36:27,109 --> 01:36:26,080
problem with them ultimately having been

2778
01:36:28,149 --> 01:36:27,119
released

2779
01:36:29,510 --> 01:36:28,159
although there were various

2780
01:36:30,870 --> 01:36:29,520
investigations when they were first

2781
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:30,880
released by the new york times i think

2782
01:36:35,590 --> 01:36:32,960
the air force office of special

2783
01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:35,600
investigations first got into the game

2784
01:36:38,950 --> 01:36:37,280
they looked at these videos to try to

2785
01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:38,960
determine if there were any technologies

2786
01:36:43,189 --> 01:36:40,880
or sensitive you know

2787
01:36:44,629 --> 01:36:43,199
equipment or capabilities

2788
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:44,639
uh

2789
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:47,119
with the equipment used in the footage

2790
01:36:51,189 --> 01:36:49,600
and it's in its uh you know capture that

2791
01:36:53,350 --> 01:36:51,199
were being revealed by the footage

2792
01:36:54,870 --> 01:36:53,360
itself they determined

2793
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:54,880
nothing sensitive was being released

2794
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:57,119
these videos weren't classified

2795
01:37:01,350 --> 01:36:58,800
and eventually and it took them until

2796
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:01,360
2020 but again the dod did eventually

2797
01:37:04,629 --> 01:37:03,280
authorize them for release and at that

2798
01:37:06,070 --> 01:37:04,639
time

2799
01:37:07,510 --> 01:37:06,080
they said in the official pentagon

2800
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:07,520
statement which is still on the dod

2801
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:10,080
website that this is to help clear up

2802
01:37:12,790 --> 01:37:11,760
questions about whether these videos are

2803
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:12,800
real

2804
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:14,000
or whether they're a link to your

2805
01:37:18,310 --> 01:37:15,840
versions of the videos

2806
01:37:19,830 --> 01:37:18,320
now again i spoke with gary voorhees

2807
01:37:21,350 --> 01:37:19,840
about this and he said you know they're

2808
01:37:23,510 --> 01:37:21,360
in the uh

2809
01:37:25,750 --> 01:37:23,520
you know the command center the

2810
01:37:27,510 --> 01:37:25,760
what they call i guess is it the coc i

2811
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:27,520
think they call it uh on board the

2812
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:29,280
princeton he said that when fraver and

2813
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:30,320
then flew out there and they were

2814
01:37:32,870 --> 01:37:31,760
attempting to actually engage this

2815
01:37:34,390 --> 01:37:32,880
object

2816
01:37:35,590 --> 01:37:34,400
he said that you know i mean we were all

2817
01:37:36,870 --> 01:37:35,600
watching the video and he said i

2818
01:37:37,830 --> 01:37:36,880
remember there being a link to your

2819
01:37:39,590 --> 01:37:37,840
video

2820
01:37:41,350 --> 01:37:39,600
another gentleman who i spoke to who on

2821
01:37:43,830 --> 01:37:41,360
the record came on my program ryan

2822
01:37:45,350 --> 01:37:43,840
waggle uh he also said i recall being in

2823
01:37:46,550 --> 01:37:45,360
there uh he said i was doing other

2824
01:37:47,910 --> 01:37:46,560
things in the room at the time but he

2825
01:37:49,109 --> 01:37:47,920
said there was clearly a video he says

2826
01:37:50,390 --> 01:37:49,119
it wasn't just that little clip that

2827
01:37:52,390 --> 01:37:50,400
everybody's seen on youtube there was a

2828
01:37:54,709 --> 01:37:52,400
much lengthier video

2829
01:37:56,229 --> 01:37:54,719
and i even asked uh lieutenant ryan uh

2830
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:56,239
wiggled i mean do you do you think it

2831
01:38:00,149 --> 01:37:58,080
could have been on replay or on loop and

2832
01:38:01,750 --> 01:38:00,159
he said i couldn't tell you because he

2833
01:38:03,510 --> 01:38:01,760
said we all had so many different jobs

2834
01:38:05,109 --> 01:38:03,520
and things we were doing on the ship

2835
01:38:06,629 --> 01:38:05,119
that wasn't my focus at the time but he

2836
01:38:07,750 --> 01:38:06,639
said i clearly remember that footage

2837
01:38:09,510 --> 01:38:07,760
being played

2838
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:09,520
gary voorhees on the other hand said no

2839
01:38:13,750 --> 01:38:11,679
it was definitely a lengthier video he

2840
01:38:16,149 --> 01:38:13,760
had initially told me he thought that

2841
01:38:17,510 --> 01:38:16,159
that was actually not the at fleer

2842
01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:17,520
footage that we're all familiar with but

2843
01:38:20,950 --> 01:38:18,880
this was actually what's called the link

2844
01:38:23,109 --> 01:38:20,960
six uh or uh

2845
01:38:25,030 --> 01:38:23,119
i think actually the leaks the link 16

2846
01:38:27,030 --> 01:38:25,040
but he had after

2847
01:38:28,470 --> 01:38:27,040
initially telling me that he said

2848
01:38:30,229 --> 01:38:28,480
actually i don't think that's the

2849
01:38:32,229 --> 01:38:30,239
footage that wouldn't have been in use

2850
01:38:33,189 --> 01:38:32,239
on the system that we had at that time

2851
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:33,199
and therefore i couldn't have been

2852
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,800
observing it through that

2853
01:38:38,870 --> 01:38:37,199
so the footage i saw must have been the

2854
01:38:40,229 --> 01:38:38,880
footage that everyone has seen but he

2855
01:38:41,590 --> 01:38:40,239
said i distinctly remember there being a

2856
01:38:43,109 --> 01:38:41,600
longer version

2857
01:38:44,709 --> 01:38:43,119
so a lot of people have said that people

2858
01:38:45,910 --> 01:38:44,719
have also talked about the radar bridge

2859
01:38:47,270 --> 01:38:45,920
from the princeton that were taken by

2860
01:38:50,310 --> 01:38:47,280
two men in plainclothes who came on

2861
01:38:51,990 --> 01:38:50,320
board the ship and took the radar data

2862
01:38:53,510 --> 01:38:52,000
christian lambright last point i'll make

2863
01:38:54,790 --> 01:38:53,520
here about the videos at least and

2864
01:38:56,550 --> 01:38:54,800
information about the nimitz thing that

2865
01:38:58,870 --> 01:38:56,560
we haven't seen christian lambright who

2866
01:39:00,149 --> 01:38:58,880
is again another very diligent foyer

2867
01:39:03,189 --> 01:39:00,159
researcher

2868
01:39:05,109 --> 01:39:03,199
of many years but he got the foia back

2869
01:39:07,270 --> 01:39:05,119
which stated to him that you know naval

2870
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:07,280
intelligence does have

2871
01:39:10,950 --> 01:39:08,880
another piece of footage

2872
01:39:12,470 --> 01:39:10,960
related to the nimitz incident but that

2873
01:39:13,830 --> 01:39:12,480
is currently not

2874
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:13,840
eligible for release due to its

2875
01:39:17,270 --> 01:39:15,920
classification status

2876
01:39:19,109 --> 01:39:17,280
in not so many words i'm not quoting

2877
01:39:20,390 --> 01:39:19,119
directly from the foia response that he

2878
01:39:21,669 --> 01:39:20,400
received but they did say essentially

2879
01:39:23,510 --> 01:39:21,679
there's a video we have but we can't

2880
01:39:25,750 --> 01:39:23,520
release that so

2881
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:25,760
whatever form it may take whichever one

2882
01:39:30,070 --> 01:39:27,840
mr elizondo is referring to i've spoken

2883
01:39:31,910 --> 01:39:30,080
with lou a bit uh and i don't doubt that

2884
01:39:32,950 --> 01:39:31,920
if lou says there is a video that one

2885
01:39:35,189 --> 01:39:32,960
exists

2886
01:39:37,270 --> 01:39:35,199
but i wonder

2887
01:39:39,270 --> 01:39:37,280
about that other footage related to the

2888
01:39:43,109 --> 01:39:39,280
nimitz will we ever see that will it

2889
01:39:47,189 --> 01:39:44,149
right

2890
01:39:49,830 --> 01:39:47,199
yes yeah i i spoke with gary about that

2891
01:39:52,470 --> 01:39:49,840
as well i'm going to try to play this

2892
01:39:54,470 --> 01:39:52,480
video hopefully the audio will play with

2893
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:54,480
it this was the neil degrasse

2894
01:40:03,669 --> 01:39:56,800
tyson um kind of the irony and here it

2895
01:40:08,950 --> 01:40:06,629
anticipated pentagon investigation found

2896
01:40:11,350 --> 01:40:08,960
no evidence these ufos were alien

2897
01:40:13,510 --> 01:40:11,360
spacecraft but they're not ruling out

2898
01:40:15,830 --> 01:40:13,520
the possibility either

2899
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:15,840
so you have a whole chapter of your book

2900
01:40:20,470 --> 01:40:18,239
called are we alone in the universe so

2901
01:40:24,390 --> 01:40:20,480
i'm going to ask you do you think these

2902
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:24,400
ufos are extraterrestrial in nature

2903
01:40:27,910 --> 01:40:26,320
yeah so first of all

2904
01:40:31,030 --> 01:40:27,920
that book is a collection of questions

2905
01:40:33,830 --> 01:40:31,040
we have all had about our place in the

2906
01:40:36,709 --> 01:40:33,840
universe and top two or three questions

2907
01:40:39,270 --> 01:40:36,719
i'm ever asked are are we alone in the

2908
01:40:41,669 --> 01:40:39,280
universe so this is right at the center

2909
01:40:44,229 --> 01:40:41,679
of people's core of curiosity that's

2910
01:40:45,270 --> 01:40:44,239
first second um

2911
01:40:51,189 --> 01:40:45,280
the

2912
01:40:52,430 --> 01:40:51,199
and we so want many of those mysteries

2913
01:40:54,229 --> 01:40:52,440
to be some

2914
01:40:57,109 --> 01:40:54,239
favored

2915
01:40:59,109 --> 01:40:57,119
uh answer that we might carry you see a

2916
01:41:02,790 --> 01:40:59,119
light in the sky you don't understand

2917
01:41:05,510 --> 01:41:02,800
gee i want that to be aliens visiting us

2918
01:41:08,149 --> 01:41:05,520
and so in science however you want you

2919
01:41:10,629 --> 01:41:08,159
look at you you rank possibilities by

2920
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:10,639
likelihood okay these navy

2921
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:13,040
videos you have to ask if they are

2922
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:14,400
aliens visiting

2923
01:41:19,430 --> 01:41:16,800
why are they only

2924
01:41:20,870 --> 01:41:19,440
visiting navy pilots how about the rest

2925
01:41:22,229 --> 01:41:20,880
of earth's surface

2926
01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:22,239
there are three

2927
01:41:28,310 --> 01:41:25,760
billion smartphones on this planet each

2928
01:41:31,750 --> 01:41:28,320
one is a high resolution color camera

2929
01:41:33,030 --> 01:41:31,760
and video recorder so

2930
01:41:35,669 --> 01:41:33,040
basically

2931
01:41:37,750 --> 01:41:35,679
aliens invasions have been crowdsourced

2932
01:41:40,709 --> 01:41:37,760
to the population of the planet if

2933
01:41:42,470 --> 01:41:40,719
anybody's any alien is landing anywhere

2934
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:42,480
it's gonna look what else we have

2935
01:41:46,149 --> 01:41:44,000
already streamed that used to be rare

2936
01:41:48,709 --> 01:41:46,159
but we knew was happening all right like

2937
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:48,719
police violence and all this if aliens

2938
01:41:53,030 --> 01:41:50,560
landed you know we would have it it

2939
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:53,040
would be viral overnight but instead

2940
01:41:55,440 --> 01:41:54,560
their cat videos

2941
01:42:00,229 --> 01:41:55,450
would go viral

2942
01:42:02,629 --> 01:42:00,239
[Laughter]

2943
01:42:03,669 --> 01:42:02,639
nasa chief bill nelson has said

2944
01:42:05,830 --> 01:42:03,679
that they're launching their own

2945
01:42:07,430 --> 01:42:05,840
investigation into the ufos as well and

2946
01:42:09,189 --> 01:42:07,440
acknowledges they don't know what they

2947
01:42:11,430 --> 01:42:09,199
are either one theory is that the ufos

2948
01:42:12,950 --> 01:42:11,440
could be a foreign military aircraft

2949
01:42:14,870 --> 01:42:12,960
according to new york times china and

2950
01:42:17,109 --> 01:42:14,880
russia have both invested heavily in

2951
01:42:19,350 --> 01:42:17,119
supersonic technology from what you've

2952
01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:19,360
seen how likely is that and does that

2953
01:42:24,550 --> 01:42:21,040
theory trouble you

2954
01:42:26,870 --> 01:42:24,560
yeah so first of all the of the 600 700

2955
01:42:29,669 --> 01:42:26,880
billion dollar budget of the pentagon

2956
01:42:32,629 --> 01:42:29,679
i would want some fraction of that to to

2957
01:42:35,910 --> 01:42:32,639
check out the sky and and make sure that

2958
01:42:37,350 --> 01:42:35,920
there aren't threats so i'm i'm happy to

2959
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:37,360
have learned that there are government

2960
01:42:41,830 --> 01:42:40,000
programs investigating these no problem

2961
01:42:44,229 --> 01:42:41,840
there um

2962
01:42:46,629 --> 01:42:44,239
by the way they could be foreign foreign

2963
01:42:48,790 --> 01:42:46,639
craft that have achieved some level of

2964
01:42:51,189 --> 01:42:48,800
aerodynamic sophistication that we have

2965
01:42:52,229 --> 01:42:51,199
not i'm glad they're looking into that

2966
01:42:54,310 --> 01:42:52,239
totally

2967
01:42:56,790 --> 01:42:54,320
i have no problem with that now some of

2968
01:42:59,669 --> 01:42:56,800
it i think is not explained simply by

2969
01:43:01,430 --> 01:42:59,679
hypersonic technology um there's there's

2970
01:43:03,270 --> 01:43:01,440
behavior of these dots that i don't know

2971
01:43:05,430 --> 01:43:03,280
what that is and you know my first

2972
01:43:06,790 --> 01:43:05,440
thought is it's a it's some kind of bug

2973
01:43:08,709 --> 01:43:06,800
or malfunction

2974
01:43:10,470 --> 01:43:08,719
of the electronics

2975
01:43:12,229 --> 01:43:10,480
okay that's that would be my first

2976
01:43:16,470 --> 01:43:12,239
thought not we're being observed by

2977
01:43:20,149 --> 01:43:18,470
now there seems to be growing bipartisan

2978
01:43:22,550 --> 01:43:20,159
support for more government funding for

2979
01:43:25,030 --> 01:43:22,560
research into ufos but as republican

2980
01:43:27,270 --> 01:43:25,040
senator marco rubio has pointed out a

2981
01:43:29,350 --> 01:43:27,280
stigma still exists around the issue

2982
01:43:31,350 --> 01:43:29,360
which can prompt giggles and eye rolls

2983
01:43:33,990 --> 01:43:31,360
on capitol hill how do we convince

2984
01:43:37,510 --> 01:43:34,000
lawmakers to think less in terms of e.t

2985
01:43:39,030 --> 01:43:37,520
and more like contact or interstellar

2986
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:39,040
yeah i think

2987
01:43:43,910 --> 01:43:41,199
the way to destigmatize it is

2988
01:43:46,229 --> 01:43:43,920
there are these things showing up in

2989
01:43:49,030 --> 01:43:46,239
military radar and we don't know what

2990
01:43:50,790 --> 01:43:49,040
they are anyone who is curious say let's

2991
01:43:53,109 --> 01:43:50,800
go try to figure it out

2992
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:53,119
if you lead with the idea that we're

2993
01:43:57,590 --> 01:43:56,159
being visited by aliens that's

2994
01:43:59,350 --> 01:43:57,600
some people have that as their first

2995
01:44:00,390 --> 01:43:59,360
explanation for what they don't

2996
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:00,400
understand

2997
01:44:05,270 --> 01:44:02,560
but for a skeptical scientist that would

2998
01:44:08,629 --> 01:44:05,280
probably be the last explanation as carl

2999
01:44:10,950 --> 01:44:08,639
sagan famously said extraordinary claims

3000
01:44:14,310 --> 01:44:10,960
require extraordinary evidence

3001
01:44:21,350 --> 01:44:14,320
not monochromatic fuzzy navy video of

3002
01:44:25,669 --> 01:44:22,709
one of the great challenges in this

3003
01:44:28,229 --> 01:44:25,679
world is knowing enough about a subject

3004
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:28,239
to think you're right

3005
01:44:39,350 --> 01:44:31,760
but not enough about the subject

3006
01:44:43,669 --> 01:44:41,590
well there you go

3007
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:43,679
i played that

3008
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:45,600
so a lot of that kind of

3009
01:44:50,550 --> 01:44:47,520
reflected what you mentioned earlier

3010
01:44:53,830 --> 01:44:52,470
it did and martin if i can just you know

3011
01:44:55,830 --> 01:44:53,840
cover a few of the points right there

3012
01:44:57,030 --> 01:44:55,840
again that very last one you know

3013
01:44:58,390 --> 01:44:57,040
about

3014
01:45:00,070 --> 01:44:58,400
not knowing enough to know that you're

3015
01:45:01,669 --> 01:45:00,080
wrong

3016
01:45:03,669 --> 01:45:01,679
i would say that one of the great

3017
01:45:05,750 --> 01:45:03,679
paradoxes about ufo research is when

3018
01:45:08,149 --> 01:45:05,760
people come on radio programs like this

3019
01:45:10,870 --> 01:45:08,159
and say you know i'm a ufo researcher

3020
01:45:13,510 --> 01:45:10,880
and an expert on this phenomenon look if

3021
01:45:14,830 --> 01:45:13,520
we still call them unidentified

3022
01:45:17,030 --> 01:45:14,840
right flying objects if they're

3023
01:45:19,270 --> 01:45:17,040
unidentified how can anybody really be

3024
01:45:21,430 --> 01:45:19,280
an expert now you or i might be an

3025
01:45:23,270 --> 01:45:21,440
expert in the cultural dialogue about

3026
01:45:25,510 --> 01:45:23,280
these or the history of purported

3027
01:45:27,030 --> 01:45:25,520
sightings or you know even an expert in

3028
01:45:28,790 --> 01:45:27,040
speculations about them you know

3029
01:45:31,669 --> 01:45:28,800
computer scientists and physicists like

3030
01:45:33,430 --> 01:45:31,679
jacques valet have laboriously tried to

3031
01:45:35,030 --> 01:45:33,440
catalog information and look for

3032
01:45:36,629 --> 01:45:35,040
statistical trends that can help us

3033
01:45:38,229 --> 01:45:36,639
discern things i would dare say that

3034
01:45:39,510 --> 01:45:38,239
someone like valet

3035
01:45:40,950 --> 01:45:39,520
when it comes to everything from the

3036
01:45:43,990 --> 01:45:40,960
science to the myth and the culture of

3037
01:45:45,669 --> 01:45:44,000
uap studies spanning several decades

3038
01:45:47,590 --> 01:45:45,679
he's probably one of the closest to

3039
01:45:49,189 --> 01:45:47,600
being an expert of anybody that we have

3040
01:45:51,109 --> 01:45:49,199
he mark rodiger

3041
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:51,119
and a few others too who you know again

3042
01:45:55,189 --> 01:45:52,880
have both certain qualifications but

3043
01:45:56,550 --> 01:45:55,199
have also been in it for a while but

3044
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:56,560
at the end of the day

3045
01:46:01,030 --> 01:45:58,000
there are limitations to how much

3046
01:46:03,430 --> 01:46:01,040
expertise we ufo experts can have now

3047
01:46:06,470 --> 01:46:03,440
all of that said neil degrasse tyson is

3048
01:46:08,390 --> 01:46:06,480
probably a little less equipped when it

3049
01:46:10,709 --> 01:46:08,400
comes to the knowledge base that some of

3050
01:46:12,950 --> 01:46:10,719
those ufo researchers have even though

3051
01:46:14,709 --> 01:46:12,960
he is more well-equipped than the

3052
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:14,719
average bear and maybe even the average

3053
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:17,199
scientist when it comes to having a

3054
01:46:20,310 --> 01:46:18,560
knowledge of the physics and the

3055
01:46:22,390 --> 01:46:20,320
fundamentals of the work the workings of

3056
01:46:24,790 --> 01:46:22,400
the universe and and thereby has a

3057
01:46:26,629 --> 01:46:24,800
scientific toolkit i.e the scientific

3058
01:46:28,470 --> 01:46:26,639
method and knows how to apply that when

3059
01:46:30,149 --> 01:46:28,480
he's looking at things but by the same

3060
01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:30,159
token then he falls back on that tired

3061
01:46:34,870 --> 01:46:31,920
argument that we've heard and again with

3062
01:46:36,390 --> 01:46:34,880
respect both he and seth shostak say

3063
01:46:37,990 --> 01:46:36,400
well maybe these are just

3064
01:46:39,669 --> 01:46:38,000
bugs in the camera

3065
01:46:41,750 --> 01:46:39,679
first and foremost let's point out that

3066
01:46:44,310 --> 01:46:41,760
these objects as was referred to in the

3067
01:46:46,310 --> 01:46:44,320
odni report last june

3068
01:46:48,149 --> 01:46:46,320
are sometimes both seen in videos but

3069
01:46:49,669 --> 01:46:48,159
also tracked on radar sometimes there

3070
01:46:51,590 --> 01:46:49,679
are other sensor systems that are

3071
01:46:54,149 --> 01:46:51,600
capable of detecting these satellite

3072
01:46:57,990 --> 01:46:54,159
images appear to depict uap as a was

3073
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:58,000
related by former dni john ratcliffe

3074
01:47:01,109 --> 01:46:59,360
back a couple of years ago and that was

3075
01:47:03,030 --> 01:47:01,119
with a bit of controversy too because

3076
01:47:04,950 --> 01:47:03,040
some had said specifically

3077
01:47:06,790 --> 01:47:04,960
uh lewis gideon krauss writing from the

3078
01:47:08,870 --> 01:47:06,800
new yorker that intelligence officials

3079
01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:08,880
he spoke with had wished maybe that mr

3080
01:47:12,550 --> 01:47:10,960
ratcliff hadn't said so much about

3081
01:47:13,510 --> 01:47:12,560
the satellite images involving these

3082
01:47:14,550 --> 01:47:13,520
things

3083
01:47:16,310 --> 01:47:14,560
but we look at all the different

3084
01:47:17,750 --> 01:47:16,320
agencies that contributed to the odni

3085
01:47:19,030 --> 01:47:17,760
report you know it wasn't just a couple

3086
01:47:21,189 --> 01:47:19,040
of people up there at the office of

3087
01:47:22,950 --> 01:47:21,199
naval intelligence we had the navy yes

3088
01:47:25,030 --> 01:47:22,960
we did have some input limited though it

3089
01:47:27,430 --> 01:47:25,040
was by the air force and again uh

3090
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:27,440
christopher mellon has really uh

3091
01:47:31,430 --> 01:47:29,440
complained about that and really put out

3092
01:47:34,390 --> 01:47:31,440
what i consider a tour de force there at

3093
01:47:36,229 --> 01:47:34,400
thedebrief.org in an article that he did

3094
01:47:38,470 --> 01:47:36,239
for us asking why is the air force

3095
01:47:40,550 --> 01:47:38,480
essentially a wall in the uap question

3096
01:47:42,950 --> 01:47:40,560
but we also had the military i mean we

3097
01:47:45,109 --> 01:47:42,960
had the faa we had national geospatial

3098
01:47:46,629 --> 01:47:45,119
intelligence we had the nro the fbi the

3099
01:47:48,950 --> 01:47:46,639
cia even though they were probably

3100
01:47:51,830 --> 01:47:48,960
redacted that was one of the agencies

3101
01:47:53,350 --> 01:47:51,840
that uh i suspect was probably behind a

3102
01:47:54,470 --> 01:47:53,360
short redaction in that classified

3103
01:47:56,550 --> 01:47:54,480
version of the report that john

3104
01:47:58,310 --> 01:47:56,560
greenwald got the other day the point is

3105
01:48:00,149 --> 01:47:58,320
there were a lot of agencies supplying

3106
01:48:01,990 --> 01:48:00,159
data let's not forget the nsa too by the

3107
01:48:02,870 --> 01:48:02,000
way and some others that i haven't

3108
01:48:04,550 --> 01:48:02,880
mentioned

3109
01:48:06,470 --> 01:48:04,560
a lot of agencies were supplying data

3110
01:48:09,990 --> 01:48:06,480
that they have on uap that probably came

3111
01:48:11,189 --> 01:48:10,000
from multiple sensor systems guys

3112
01:48:12,950 --> 01:48:11,199
even though

3113
01:48:15,109 --> 01:48:12,960
it's incomplete the information that we

3114
01:48:16,950 --> 01:48:15,119
have okay they haven't given us all the

3115
01:48:18,470 --> 01:48:16,960
details on what sensor systems have

3116
01:48:20,790 --> 01:48:18,480
collected these things but i'm pretty

3117
01:48:22,629 --> 01:48:20,800
sure that we can glean from all that

3118
01:48:23,990 --> 01:48:22,639
but these aren't just bugs and cameras

3119
01:48:25,430 --> 01:48:24,000
okay

3120
01:48:28,229 --> 01:48:25,440
and some of the most sophisticated

3121
01:48:30,629 --> 01:48:28,239
tracking capabilities at the disposal of

3122
01:48:33,350 --> 01:48:30,639
our military are picking these things up

3123
01:48:34,790 --> 01:48:33,360
but again paradoxically neil seems to

3124
01:48:37,189 --> 01:48:34,800
come back around and say you know with

3125
01:48:38,950 --> 01:48:37,199
all these hypersonics developments note

3126
01:48:40,390 --> 01:48:38,960
that the reporter they refer to them as

3127
01:48:42,229 --> 01:48:40,400
supersonics honey these things go a

3128
01:48:44,070 --> 01:48:42,239
little faster than that neil got it

3129
01:48:45,430 --> 01:48:44,080
right when he said hypersonics yeah he

3130
01:48:46,709 --> 01:48:45,440
says i hope that there are people

3131
01:48:48,229 --> 01:48:46,719
looking at these things and let's hope

3132
01:48:50,629 --> 01:48:48,239
our foreign adversaries don't have these

3133
01:48:52,310 --> 01:48:50,639
and aren't using them look russia

3134
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:52,320
during this terrible

3135
01:48:56,470 --> 01:48:54,639
uh situation in ukraine that's unfolded

3136
01:48:58,470 --> 01:48:56,480
in recent days that my good buddy tim

3137
01:48:59,990 --> 01:48:58,480
mcmillan's done an incredible job

3138
01:49:01,990 --> 01:49:00,000
reporting on for the debrief in recent

3139
01:49:03,990 --> 01:49:02,000
days but when they did roll out what

3140
01:49:05,669 --> 01:49:04,000
they claimed were hypersonics weapons

3141
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:05,679
many defense experts came out and said

3142
01:49:08,950 --> 01:49:07,119
we're not so sure

3143
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,960
and again what we've seen based on

3144
01:49:12,550 --> 01:49:10,400
russia's performance and their attempt

3145
01:49:14,950 --> 01:49:12,560
at invading ukraine was that if they've

3146
01:49:17,270 --> 01:49:14,960
got advanced technologies they certainly

3147
01:49:18,390 --> 01:49:17,280
on our aren't on par with what navy

3148
01:49:19,830 --> 01:49:18,400
officers and others are claiming that

3149
01:49:22,470 --> 01:49:19,840
they're encountering during these uap

3150
01:49:23,830 --> 01:49:22,480
incidents so again with all the data

3151
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:23,840
that we have in front of us i'm not

3152
01:49:28,070 --> 01:49:26,400
convinced by the arguments by neil tyson

3153
01:49:29,750 --> 01:49:28,080
and others but these are just bugs in

3154
01:49:32,149 --> 01:49:29,760
the camera or maybe russia or china

3155
01:49:33,510 --> 01:49:32,159
playing around some of them might be

3156
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:33,520
but there are certainly other instances

3157
01:49:36,709 --> 01:49:35,040
that seem to represent something far

3158
01:49:39,189 --> 01:49:36,719
more anomalous

3159
01:49:40,709 --> 01:49:39,199
micah we're uh we're just about out of

3160
01:49:42,950 --> 01:49:40,719
time here just right right about a

3161
01:49:45,109 --> 01:49:42,960
minute left now when i was gone when i

3162
01:49:47,350 --> 01:49:45,119
had to switch my internet

3163
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:47,360
did you talk about the debrief

3164
01:49:50,870 --> 01:49:48,880
because if not throw it throw it out

3165
01:49:53,430 --> 01:49:50,880
there real quickly because you're you're

3166
01:49:56,070 --> 01:49:53,440
a monumental aspect of how that became

3167
01:49:58,550 --> 01:49:56,080
formed and now what a great website that

3168
01:50:01,189 --> 01:49:58,560
isn't i'm so sorry that i forgot to ask

3169
01:50:05,270 --> 01:50:01,199
you about that tonight so you got like

3170
01:50:08,310 --> 01:50:06,950
we we've had plugins on the table and

3171
01:50:09,750 --> 01:50:08,320
yes i did mention it but i'll mention

3172
01:50:12,149 --> 01:50:09,760
again you know i mean there's the

3173
01:50:14,070 --> 01:50:12,159
debrief.org where you can follow my

3174
01:50:15,669 --> 01:50:14,080
reporting and that of tim mcmillan and

3175
01:50:17,589 --> 01:50:15,679
all the other fine writers who are

3176
01:50:18,950 --> 01:50:17,599
contributors there tim mj and i of

3177
01:50:20,350 --> 01:50:18,960
course co-founded that and then there's

3178
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:20,360
my podcast which you can find at

3179
01:50:24,870 --> 01:50:22,960
micahanks.com forward slash podcast

3180
01:50:27,109 --> 01:50:24,880
where i speak about these subjects just

3181
01:50:28,790 --> 01:50:27,119
about every week so martin listen i know

3182
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:28,800
we weren't on our optimal phone lines

3183
01:50:31,669 --> 01:50:30,400
tonight let's do this again sooner

3184
01:50:33,510 --> 01:50:31,679
rather than later and i'll have a good

3185
01:50:35,990 --> 01:50:33,520
internet connection i promise

3186
01:50:38,629 --> 01:50:36,000
all right thanks so much micah it's been

3187
01:50:40,070 --> 01:50:38,639
a real pleasure take care

3188
01:50:41,830 --> 01:50:40,080
my pleasure

3189
01:50:43,510 --> 01:50:41,840
all right all right everyone so next

3190
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:43,520
week we'll be back with chad and ulta

3191
01:50:47,669 --> 01:50:45,760
dillard and we are totally out of time

3192
01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:47,679
thank you very much and remember to keep

3193
01:51:00,400 --> 01:50:51,090
your eyes to the sky